tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post6646213105458932716..comments2024-03-17T07:55:12.096-07:00Comments on FOFOA: Unambiguous WealthFOFOAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17152544684132776239noreply@blogger.comBlogger450125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-14756431624373294202012-12-19T08:33:43.511-08:002012-12-19T08:33:43.511-08:00testtestJeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08785185950964767294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-57564921487568941262011-12-11T20:10:45.653-08:002011-12-11T20:10:45.653-08:00Indeed abe,
Mises said this too. Gold is a secon...Indeed abe,<br /><br />Mises said this too. Gold is a secondary media and must be exchanged with the primary to be deployed into other activities. <br /> <br /><b>"Mises: One must not confuse secondary media of exchange with money-substitutes. Money-substitutes are in the settlement of payments given away and received like money. But the secondary media of exchange must first be exchanged JRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-62284007051162338362011-12-11T18:15:19.480-08:002011-12-11T18:15:19.480-08:00burningfiat,
Thanks for the link to that TF post....burningfiat,<br /><br />Thanks for the link to that TF post. Eerie indeed.costatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17932860172715556937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-87375103867293793562011-12-11T15:06:18.876-08:002011-12-11T15:06:18.876-08:00Thanks JR
"That a business has to do other s...Thanks JR<br /><br />"That a business has to do other stuff to be in the position to transact goods is a separate question from the payment they would accept for their goods. But as you I think allude, with a stable currency there's lots of reasons to prefer transactions be settled in currency as opposed to gold. Fiat's a better medium of exchange for some of these reasons."<br abehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18399370177522803941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-78720885761367730482011-12-11T14:26:39.127-08:002011-12-11T14:26:39.127-08:00Has The Turd just described the final disconnect, ...Has The Turd just described the final disconnect, FOFOA's inverted waterfall in a very eerie and detailed way?<br /> <br />http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/3120/thought-experiment<br /><br />When you read this kind stuff on a TA-oriented blog, we can't be far away now, can we?<br /><br />/Burningburningfiathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15830817879033179597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-30906099713750933422011-12-11T11:55:37.856-08:002011-12-11T11:55:37.856-08:00Not sure what you mean abe,
"Maybe I'm o...Not sure what you mean abe,<br /><br />"Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but settling contracts in gold would be saying that I make 100% profit on this deal with no expenses, right?"<br /><br />No, it means I give you x and you can pay me in currency or in gold. Gold and currency have exchange rates, so in a stable currency there is an amount of gold that is equal to an about of fiat, noJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-50321796933423980252011-12-11T11:40:53.587-08:002011-12-11T11:40:53.587-08:00Re: why not use the nuclear option now?
I would a...Re: why not use the nuclear option now?<br /><br />I would assume that as long as oil flows, there is no reason to change the current system. It seems to me that the Euro was created to keep oil flowing (and gold in the opposite direction). With the past 100 years as precedent, I'm sure that Europe has no interest in another WW on its soil. If the nuclear button was pushed and the $US was abehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18399370177522803941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-45482149403745267382011-12-11T11:28:42.063-08:002011-12-11T11:28:42.063-08:00Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but settling contr...Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but settling contracts in gold would be saying that I make 100% profit on this deal with no expenses, right? To me, it seems much more likely that you want currency so you can pay overhead, salaries, COGs, etc. After all that has been taken care of, then the question would be what to reinvest/expand and what to store for future investing (store gold).abehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18399370177522803941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-56862370848138408952011-12-11T10:57:52.825-08:002011-12-11T10:57:52.825-08:00So this is the key:
Gold could / would be a final...So this is the key:<br /><br /><b>Gold could / would be a final trade; I'll give you ten cars (or gold) for your house,,, deal done. If I want more time to pay, I and we must engage a fiat loan."</b><br /><br />In RLP's presentation of TF's contract example, <b>gold is a point of reference for the contract.</b><br /><br />It is not a paper promise that someone deliver physical JRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-48602395695469422102011-12-11T10:53:32.976-08:002011-12-11T10:53:32.976-08:00FOA (5/9/01; 07:20:23MT - usagold.com msg#72)
A Tr...<i>FOA (5/9/01; 07:20:23MT - usagold.com msg#72)<br />A Tree in the Making #04<br /><br /><b>Our modern gold market and the price illusion it creates, is little more than a fiat dollar system that denominates gold credits in contract form.</b> Is it a free market? Why yes, very free. But only free in the sense that supply is unlimited. <b>Investors and the industry in total, bought into paper JRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-39257602365763882772011-12-11T10:50:54.297-08:002011-12-11T10:50:54.297-08:00Econoclast suggests:
-------weaving OUR gold supp...Econoclast suggests:<br /><br /><i>-------weaving OUR gold supply, literally, into gold dollars--------Contracts could be denominated in gold dollars, however these "gold notes" are strictly non-transferable. If someone wants to sell their gold note, they can't. It is only enforceable between the parties that entered into it originally. All forms of paper gold are illegal-fraudulentJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-4143482314615649642011-12-11T10:50:41.596-08:002011-12-11T10:50:41.596-08:00LS,
You comment: "on that tf contract exampl...LS,<br /><br />You comment: <i>"on that tf contract example, why wouldn't i as the producer just say i want an oz of gold (instead of all these references, discounting, expecting...), wouldn't that be much simplier, direct and easier?"</i> <br /><br />So you are asking what the downfalls are to using a paper gold system? This is a very important but often confusing point, so JRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-62732666292866972352011-12-11T10:40:29.462-08:002011-12-11T10:40:29.462-08:00LS,
You ask "if so, where does ecb get their...LS,<br /><br />You ask "if so, where does ecb get their gold from?"<br /><br />The nations who joined the ECB made a capital subscription, payable in gold. The ECB has its gold on its balance sheet. So the ECB has its own gold it can use to defend its currencies. From <a href="http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/10/rpg-update-4.html" rel="nofollow">RPG Update #4</a> <br /><br /><i>&JRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-16490772335375776372011-12-11T10:16:07.007-08:002011-12-11T10:16:07.007-08:00cont.
"The Money Concept
FOFOA: The measure...cont.<br /><br /><i>"The Money Concept<br /><br />FOFOA: <b>The measure of any money's store of value is a continuum of time. It is directly linked to demand and velocity. Even the worst money (say, Zimbabwe dollars during the hyperinflation) works as a very temporary store of value.</b> Perhaps you read stories about workers in Zimbabwe getting paid twice a day and then running out to JRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-23209767827417807672011-12-11T10:12:02.031-08:002011-12-11T10:12:02.031-08:00HI LS,
You comment "first is the confidence...HI LS, <br /><br />You comment "first is the confidence part. it's not just a confidence issue. by freegold, what I understand is gold will be saved as the ultimate store of value and currency will function as the transaction medium. now if thats the case, then it implies people will not expect currency to store value and thus they will be spent or converted to gold as soon as you get itJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345441084565082627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-21642263851252848212011-12-11T09:18:36.396-08:002011-12-11T09:18:36.396-08:00Europe: a financial crisis, not a monetary one
Spe...Europe: a financial crisis, not a monetary one<br />Speech by Christian Noyer, Governor of Banque de France<br />Tokyo – Singapour - November 28-30th 2011<br /><br />http://anotherfreegoldblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/bdf-europe-financial-crisis-not.html<br /><br />Source: http://www.banque-france.fr/gb/instit/telechar/discours/2011/Europe-a-financial-crisis-not-a-monetary-one-28-11-2011.pdf@mortymer001https://www.blogger.com/profile/13047624328777522777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-81921651440851657722011-12-11T08:25:27.956-08:002011-12-11T08:25:27.956-08:00LS
Firstly, and very very importantly, under Free...LS<br /><br />Firstly, and very very importantly, under FreeGold no contract can be forced to be settled in gold. This is a key requiremnt. So contracts would only be able to be made in reference to gold. <br /><br />As to your earlier question of why some would want to exchange currency for gold. As I have stated, the currency would be overvalued. <br /><br />At any point in time there is a fairMotley Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902761012772262091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-39727803839224049822011-12-11T08:23:09.041-08:002011-12-11T08:23:09.041-08:00LS,
Gold is superior for wealth storage, but cur...LS, <br /><br />Gold is superior for wealth storage, but currencies are for transacting. If the currency is stable in gold you don't need to keep converting back and forth. <br /><br />From the above quote: <br /><br />Currencies will also be managed for stability ( the ECB's only mandate) so there should be no wild fluctuation in exchange rates. One would be able to simply sign a Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08785185950964767294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-53848064869067969162011-12-11T08:22:12.128-08:002011-12-11T08:22:12.128-08:00Because fiat is a far superior medium of exchange ...Because fiat is a far superior medium of exchange when you consider the size of international trade.Robert LeRoy Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10590421224681538226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-37757858789294225812011-12-11T08:18:33.187-08:002011-12-11T08:18:33.187-08:00@rlp
on that tf contract example, why wouldn't...@rlp<br />on that tf contract example, why wouldn't i as the producer just say i want an oz of gold (instead of all these references, discounting, expecting...), wouldn't that be much simplier, direct and easier? what's wrong with that?LShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01658967380174037214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-47674243560786744792011-12-11T07:14:47.066-08:002011-12-11T07:14:47.066-08:00To your third point, the spur and brake mechanism ...To your third point, the spur and brake mechanism of gold from Once Upon a Time:<br /><br /><i>"The outflow of real capital from any zone signals the need to produce more and consume less. The inflow of real capital signals the need to consume more and produce less. The price mechanism transmits this signal to individual actors in the economy. The inflow of real capital will raise prices Robert LeRoy Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10590421224681538226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-38473591775983749452011-12-11T06:55:28.211-08:002011-12-11T06:55:28.211-08:00Cont...
"Let us refine it some more.
Imagin...Cont...<br /><br /><i>"Let us refine it some more.<br /><br />Imagine FG is already here and this year gold is $60,000 per ounce. Next year it could be reasonably $63,000 per ounce, discounting factors like inflation.<br /><br />Now let's say I modify the agreement to giving you a 90% discount on all gains over the year.<br /><br />So this year you pay me $60k and next year you will pay Robert LeRoy Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10590421224681538226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-30912658631644720922011-12-11T06:50:09.160-08:002011-12-11T06:50:09.160-08:00Here are some slightly edited comments from TF whi...Here are some slightly edited comments from TF which I won't link to in regards to currency risk:<br /><br /><i>"Talking about trade exchange rate risk, also present in the current system.<br /><br />For example, let us say I trade with you. Our currency currently exchanges 1 for 1. We sign a contract whereby I deliver goods to you for a nominal price in say your currency.<br /><br />A Robert LeRoy Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10590421224681538226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-77807312248910916312011-12-11T05:58:48.616-08:002011-12-11T05:58:48.616-08:00@jeff,tf,fofoa
thanks for answering.
but i am sti...@jeff,tf,fofoa<br />thanks for answering.<br /><br />but i am still confused.<br /><br />first is the confidence part. it's not just a confidence issue. by freegold, what i understand is gold will be saved as the ultimate store of value and currency will function as the transaction medium. now if thats the case, then it implies people will not expect currency to store value and thus they LShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01658967380174037214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-42426808157580919372011-12-11T05:44:47.987-08:002011-12-11T05:44:47.987-08:00LS,
I find this example of freegold from zenscream...LS,<br />I find this example of freegold from zenscreamer can help in developing many other deductions of how the process will work.<br /><br /><a href="http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/07/euro-gold.html?showComment=1310686948504#c2288839323686247741" rel="nofollow">Zenscreamer's comment</a>Robert LeRoy Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10590421224681538226noreply@blogger.com