tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post7549013158150258697..comments2024-03-17T07:55:12.096-07:00Comments on FOFOA: Dilemma 2 – Homeless DollarsFOFOAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17152544684132776239noreply@blogger.comBlogger201125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-2774413092011724112010-11-11T11:48:41.304-08:002010-11-11T11:48:41.304-08:00http://www.safehaven.com/article/2455/can-a-lower-...http://www.safehaven.com/article/2455/can-a-lower-dollar-really-improve-the-trade-deficit<br /><br />Why a Dollar Depreciation May Not Close the U.S. Trade Deficit<br /><br />http://www.ny.frb.org/research/current_issues/ci13-5/ci13-5.html<br /><br /><br />In short the Fed paper says approx if $ drops 10% trade balance will improve by ~12% in real terms and ~10% in nominal.<br /><br />conclusion&raptorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11472558794377090197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-47767550734251420572010-11-11T11:11:11.227-08:002010-11-11T11:11:11.227-08:00>
The original forms of "money" (mean...><br />The original forms of "money" (means of lubricating trade) were credit money, gold came later, as an add on.<br />><br /><br />Really !!!!!<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money<br /><br /><br />The Sumer civilization developed a large scale economy based on commodity money. ...<br />The use of gold as proto-money has been traced back to the fourth raptorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11472558794377090197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-35854515224278148742010-11-11T09:26:02.000-08:002010-11-11T09:26:02.000-08:00>
Please, can we agree that "its" not...><br />Please, can we agree that "its" not only about production but actually supporting production via consumption as well. We are not just a bunch of producers we need consumers. <br />><br />>Savings is a burden when excessive. How to predetermine the "right" amount ? Dont know. How to know it when you see it....... right now. We have OVER produced a lot of things.raptorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11472558794377090197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-1529177329726030802010-11-10T16:12:05.181-08:002010-11-10T16:12:05.181-08:00"Markets are already using gold as an alterna..."Markets are already using gold as an alternative monetary asset because confidence is low...it is saying we have a problem that needs to be fixed. There is an elephant in the room and that is what I want people to recognise," Zoellick said.<br /><br />Brilliant! I think that elephant is about to evacuate it's bowels all over the COMEX.<br /><br />"I have a long stated belief, Paul Ihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02325303090649114859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-80424161440273817702010-11-10T15:42:25.919-08:002010-11-10T15:42:25.919-08:00We always lose a few readers when the comments rol...We always lose a few readers when the comments roll over to a second page at 200. So I've started a new open forum to continue this thread.<br /><br />Tyrone, you'd better be quick if you want to be first!FOFOAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17152544684132776239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-16647128793836207812010-11-10T15:18:19.379-08:002010-11-10T15:18:19.379-08:00"Yes if China, EU, Japan, India, the Saudis a..."Yes if China, EU, Japan, India, the Saudis and Brazil banded together they would have significant power."<br /><br />I think you'll find, if you look, that there is quite a lot of such cooperation already in place. And already existing arrangements are continuing to develop amongst powerful players that are, in the main, inspired by the desire to allow trade to occur outside of theEdwardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03613197383283896190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-48346039015405905832010-11-10T14:57:48.264-08:002010-11-10T14:57:48.264-08:00littlepeople,
Bernanke co-wrote a paper in 1988 w...littlepeople,<br /><br />Bernanke co-wrote a paper in 1988 which put forward a very convincing case that QE would not address the kind of problems main street America is currently facing.<br /><br />His paper made it quite clear that QE would only assist the FIRE sector.<br /><br />IMHO he will ultimately be proved wrong on that but his decision to dynamite main street was not taken in ignorance costatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17932860172715556937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-16313805170255391002010-11-10T14:17:40.774-08:002010-11-10T14:17:40.774-08:00DP
You said, "Dollars? Yes, now THERE is some...DP<br />You said, "Dollars? Yes, now THERE is something the world has in spades... there is no limit to how many Dollars can be dug up."<br /><br />QE2 is another source for dollars. Some writers (Automaticearth, for one) say that Bernanke, Geitner, et al, know that QE2 won't do a darned thing for the people on Main Street, but it'll buy the bankers on Wall Street a little morelittlepeoplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03145556519095906058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-52167782458805534112010-11-10T14:10:36.214-08:002010-11-10T14:10:36.214-08:00DP
Not feeling picked on...... selected!
I wasn...DP <br /><br />Not feeling picked on...... selected!<br /><br />I wasn't trying to misquote Zoellick, just trying to direct folks to the post. I certainly understand having your ideas being "strawmanned" ( Money printers, deficits with no limits) I'll try to be more accurate.<br /><br />No I'm not arguing for a pre barter world. I'm simply trying to point to places Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139782404004492965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-5161307182376280502010-11-10T13:22:57.547-08:002010-11-10T13:22:57.547-08:00Dollars? Yes, now THERE is something the world has...Dollars? Yes, now THERE is something the world has in spades... there is no limit to how many Dollars can be dug up.DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-79959741663613604582010-11-10T13:02:45.146-08:002010-11-10T13:02:45.146-08:00Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a sneaky furth...Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a sneaky further minute to address this comment...<br /><br />Greg: <i>Taking this a step further, are the decisions of individuals any different in a world without money than in a world where money was as ubiquitous as air?</i><br /><br />Maybe you could travel back in time and ask the Mayans what they thought of gold? They had it in spades, and they thought DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-49604979944485689772010-11-10T12:55:29.667-08:002010-11-10T12:55:29.667-08:00Finally for today's responses to your response...Finally for today's responses to your responses, Greg... :-)<br /><br />You cannot compare "houses" with "gold". Can you sell your house to a person in Mongolia? (Pick your place, it doesn't matter... how about West Virginia? I hear it's nice there.) No, you can't. Only if they happen to want to relocate to where you house is right now. (I'm sure it's DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-78685684973089497482010-11-10T12:49:01.472-08:002010-11-10T12:49:01.472-08:00Greg: A thought occured to me earlier. There is no...Greg: <i>A thought occured to me earlier. There is not money needed for production. People were productive before we introduced the concept of money. Once you've monetized the economy however it all revolves around it. If we forgot about money would gold be an especially good store of value? In a world without money how much would you work for gold?</i><br /><br />So, you are saying it would DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-16958361549745515482010-11-10T12:38:44.000-08:002010-11-10T12:38:44.000-08:00Greg: The comment section at Bill Mitchells post y...Greg: <i>The comment section at Bill Mitchells post yesterday on the gold standard talk has a good discussion going on. I urge freegolders to join it. We need the internet to be the source of the national/global discussions that need to happen.</i><br /><br />(Sorry to keep picking you out, Greg, but you just seem at the moment to be lucky I guess. Perhaps it's just time for your 5 minutes! :DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-61199473591786765142010-11-10T12:34:33.277-08:002010-11-10T12:34:33.277-08:00Hey Jenn
"This is missing the point. Gold w...Hey Jenn<br /><br /><br />"This is missing the point. Gold will not be used as a currency -- it will be used as a wealth reserve to be converted into which ever fiat currency you wish to buy what your family needs."<br /><br />No difference it seems AFAICT. Whether gold is the currency or the anchor of the currency, IT cannot promise a productive world. People dont work for gold (unlessGreghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139782404004492965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-49225689905460200602010-11-10T12:32:23.146-08:002010-11-10T12:32:23.146-08:00Greg: You going to tell me that if I walk around w...Greg: <i>You going to tell me that if I walk around with 5lbs of gold in my pocket, I will ALWAYS have access to adequate food for my family? Does gold just magically keep present production at current levels?<br />By what mechanism?</i><br /><br />No. However, no matter where you find yourself in the world, no matter what has happened, people are always going to exchange their surplus of DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-10873709683636033872010-11-10T12:23:10.353-08:002010-11-10T12:23:10.353-08:00Greg: It may look like that is all I have looked a...Greg: <i>It may look like that is all I have looked at but that is certainly NOT true of the MMT paradigm. In fact where I find MMT most useful is in understanding that in order for a country to be sovereign, in every meaning of the word, they MUST issue their own currency. Their currency should reflect their values and those relative values will have a market price. Germans value producing a lotDPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-64220431153420838692010-11-10T12:19:45.435-08:002010-11-10T12:19:45.435-08:00@Jenn: Apologies, I should indeed have included th...@Jenn: Apologies, I should indeed have included the key word "physical". I present the revised version of that sentence to the court... :-)<br /><br /><i>We look at the price that real-world people are exchanging said currency for <b>physical</b> gold today, and this tells us the answer immediately to the question: "what is the value placed on gold today?"</i>DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01965423353442076871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-6175816735222534462010-11-10T11:49:35.386-08:002010-11-10T11:49:35.386-08:00Okay Desperado, here's my opinion with no beat...<i>Okay Desperado, here's my opinion with no beating around the bush:</i><br /><br />Sounds pretty direct to me. Old system was fixed dollar to gold price. New system will float. New floating balance point has not happened yet. Those in now stand to gain from a huge spike in price when this happens. You go home very happy. End of story.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13269067908292874746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-47257057365107529682010-11-10T11:38:14.135-08:002010-11-10T11:38:14.135-08:00Hello Greg-
Freegold cant save us either.
Freego...Hello Greg-<br /><br /><i>Freegold cant save us either.</i><br /><br />Freegold can't save the world, but it can preserve your excess wealth far into the future as our currency crisis unfolds.<br /><br /><i>You going to tell me that if I walk around with 5lbs of gold in my pocket, I will ALWAYS have access to adequate food for my family? Does gold just magically keep present production at Jennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06273650315087650694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-34844937090181121082010-11-10T11:00:16.995-08:002010-11-10T11:00:16.995-08:00"Do you think that, as things stand today and..."Do you think that, as things stand today and in light of what I have said above, everyone in the US will definitely have everything they want next week and therefore there can be no panic? Do you think the US government, or your MMT proponents, can guarantee it? "<br /><br />I've never and never would make such claims. A meteor might strike the earth next week, Yellowstone might Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139782404004492965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-84022250637966811072010-11-10T10:27:47.135-08:002010-11-10T10:27:47.135-08:00Greg,
In the previous thread I suggested to someo...Greg,<br /><br />In the previous thread I suggested to someone that they read FOA'S series on the gold of troy'; I think you might find it of interest as well.<br /><br />http://www.usagold.com/goldtrailarchives/goldtrailthree.html<br /><br />starting with post<br />FOA (1/25/2001; 16:28:50MT - usagold.com msg#56) The Gold Of Troy!<br /><br />In that series, FOA discusses the role of goldMichael Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08900572113023618278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-85924218814169332912010-11-10T10:15:56.928-08:002010-11-10T10:15:56.928-08:00I found this blog a month ago via zerohedge and ha...I found this blog a month ago via zerohedge and have been slowly absorbing the idea of Freegold.<br />I’m trying to understand how Freegold will solve various problems for the USA.<br /><br />1) Trade imbalances. While the transition to Freegold may change the debt picture, the continued flow of wealth out of the USA can’t continue in the long term. At some point, the gold will all be gone, so noMartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06350867485046857102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-82363331106376074662010-11-10T09:58:44.372-08:002010-11-10T09:58:44.372-08:00"MMT and also socialism/communism, all appear..."MMT and also socialism/communism, all appear to work great in theory and within the walls of a closed economy. The reason that they all inevitably fail is that their models do not cope gracefully with unanticipated events arising outside of their sphere of control."<br /><br /><br />In a sense, isnt this the problem with ANY system? All the believers go along and then you have to workGreghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139782404004492965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4490468598422095060.post-18194424684056136162010-11-10T09:28:51.983-08:002010-11-10T09:28:51.983-08:00@David,
Every once in a while in a large corporat...@David,<br /><br />Every once in a while in a large corporation someone will send an Email with virtually everyone in the corporation on the distribution list. A few people then reply to "all", and everyone in the corporation gets spammed. This situation continues until more people start replying to "all", requesting for other people to take them off of the list or for otherDesperadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16215858025835016523noreply@blogger.com