Thursday, January 1, 2015

Happy New Year!

2015
Year of the Fire



ANOTHER:
Make no mistake, a currency fire
is now in process and it has much fuel remaining.
_________

As was said before, the real gold market that most people invest in is gone! Any gold trading paper will evaporate in the heat of fire now starting to burn. I tell you now, when the currencies are at nuclear war, GOLD WILL NOT TRADE
_________

An experienced guide is not needed for this trail, look around you and see. The real money is selling ALL FORMS of paper gold and buying physical! Why? Because any form of paper gold is losing value much, much faster than metal. Some paper will disappear altogether in a fire of epic proportions! The massive trading continues at LBMA, but something is now missing? The CBs are no longer lending! They will not anymore!
We have reached production costs.
_________

But I say, spend your time in the company of truly wealthy ones, see how they make gold lie very still! Know this now, the world will again, in your time, feel value in gold as never before.
And that value will be as the "productive use of
holding wealth thru the fire of change".
"Yes, you can also walk in the footsteps of giants".
_________

Such will be today as all forms of "gold commerce" as denominated in dollars is put to fire. It is the very reason nations of resource wealth do not invest in "gold in the ground" … Gold above the ground is the real money for the future.
_________

For some time I have asked persons to consider that all gold paper will burn! The investment in physical gold by dollar holders will collect a lifetime of value. A value hidden in the dollar price of gold! Today, all "gold industry" paper is on fire, for all to see, as the present system for trading gold falls into failure. Indeed, $10,000 gold may prove a "contradiction" that cannot be true, yet does exist in the future. In the past, the thought of such a price of gold did present the "irresistible" urge to buy into the industry this "Dollar based market represents". Only greed can explain the need to gain more than the value "real bullion"
will one day present.
_________

FOA:
The point that this was a "New Gold Market", "unlike none before", in that the dollar market of gold would totally disappear in a blaze of paper fire! ... It is no wonder that no analysts of the gold industry can afford to see the outcome of Another! Conversely, every free citizen, worldwide, that holds and continues to buy physical gold will welcome this change. Dynamic times, indeed! We speed quickly to the conclusion of one of the greatest changes in currency values ever seen. thank you FOA
_________

If one knows where the fire exits are ahead of time, some will get out without getting burned. But, some still think gold derivatives (gold stocks included) amount to the same exits. When this market matures, they will find those doors locked. Even more so today than in years past, investors are finding this to be true. And the real fire hasn't even started yet!
_________

Just as the Fed is now "managing" an all-consuming dollar fire, so will the last of the gold bankers "Manage" their now ongoing fire. Eventually, it will take them completely out of the gold banking business and leave a wake of scorched earth. Everyone (and I mean everyone) that must utilize gold derivatives to work this modern market will be hurt by this. Even some major players are showing the road ahead as they must unload big positions in gold derivatives (last Friday) because of (you guessed it) this dollar burning crisis. And we are only just getting started! Who is going to bid for future gold (paper gold) when its delivery party is being cleaned out on the cash side from an unrelated play? Indeed, will anyone bid for paper gold when they themselves are being skinned in this? You see, there will be no security in dollar gold derivatives when the whole dollar house is on fire. They will bid for metal that is available "right now" or not bid at all! Only the "straight up" "cash bullion only" dealers will come out clean and strong in this. Is this a correct read of the cards all the players are holding? Let's hold some physical, lean back
and watch the events unfold.
_________

If this currency war gets out of hand, our boys could drive the London price as low as they want it to go! The paper won't be worth much in real gold, but every trader, market maker and mine owner/investor is contractually locked to that price making medium. It could all go down in a huge ball of fire and only the physical holders will be whole.
(notice I said holders not just owners (smile))
_________

We will later see the effects of all this as it is played out in what MK calls "the currency wars". War is truly a much better name for it. While Western investors are preparing for a little $100 or $200 rise in paper gold (and worrying about how their paper gold substitutes will hold up until we get there), the whole damn dollar arena is on fire. Everyone asks the same question you do about dollar arena currencies: "So, why does sterling continue to rise relentlessly?" Yet, in this day and time strength in these major currencies comes during a crisis. It's going to shock a lot of investors at how fast price inflation runs once the wars really get started. After the gold markets implode, physical will rush as never before seen in history. Exciting times my friend!
_________

With nowhere to turn, no new initiatives to tap and arriving at a timeline change in international currency values; both these countries are about to take a path of no return. As this downturn begins to bite, our collective governments will be forced to buy up every asset necessary. All just to keep the fires burning! This is the classic threshold of an intense inflation.

It makes me recall a line from Red October, the movie,,,,,, where the Russian submarine captain (played by our retired 007) disposes of his KGB counterpart just before stealing the ship!
He says:

----- "to where I am going, you cannot follow"-----

Indeed, where the dollar universe is now heading, no nation should follow! Can you spell hyperinflation?


Next time I will discuss; what one should really expect to see when all paper burns; and how close political events are saying we are to that fire!
_________

The media concentrates on treating the dollar more like a stock investment than a major international reserve. Considering the way our Fed is socializing our money policy now; perhaps the dollar has embarked down that road and is becoming "just a quick trade investment"! Perhaps a Hyper Trade investment, at that.

I think the majority of Western money theorists want this perception in place:

--"lower rates build the economy
and therefore the currency, too!"--

Never mind that this flies in the face of everything we and the IMF taught the third world about money policy over decades! A policy that says: your country is going down the drain because your money policy is not free trade structured like ours is! Now, we suddenly cheer any policy that tends to support us and try to explain it in a "dollar supporting" slant.

We do this, because we want the dollar market to deliver our investments out of the current US fire storm; it has nothing to do with the strength or hardness of the dollar. In this respect, media cheerleading has little to do with the dollar being a sanctuary for foreign holders during troubled times, either. It has everything to do with local internal US investments going bad. To hell with the hard currency policy we taught you—a return on money that's above inflation or free market competition to weed out the weak—we want our money back and [to hell with] the world! … This is why Europe and the BIS structured the Euro system so it could completely discard all dollar reserve function if needed.
_________

ANOTHER:
I do not offer to prove my thoughts. If what is written was easy for all to find, the information would be of no use to you. Many will take no motions to change their ways and protect worth.
Such is life.

Each will choose his way and as always
the future will teach the truth.

_________

New Year's is a time to offer predictions for the coming year, but just like all dangerous products need warning labels, I must warn you that I do not have a crystal ball. What I have is, I think, a rather unique lens. I call my lens "Freegold", and it is quite simply a framework in which to view things in a different light. Events that seem to defy other frameworks of understanding and confound their practitioners, requiring either complex explanations or else fluid notions that must be reversible anytime the wind changes directions, seem to make sense easily with my lens, which is why I take its view so seriously. That said, I think the following quote should become my standard disclaimer, especially on New Year's Day posts:

FOA: "I (we) expect none of you to consider anything said here as credible. Everything is given as I understand it. If you came with a notion that I am someone who sees the future, grab the children and run far away. For these Thoughts, and my ongoing commentary, are meant to impact exactly as the "gentleman" said they would. People hear them, and whether believed or not, the words leave a mark. A mental mark on the trail, if you will. And later, after the world turns, our little "stacks of rocks" will be easier to understand next time you are passing this way. In fact, your ability to find your own way will forever be enhanced for having seen this path in a different light."

The dollar is on fire right now… 90.28 at the close! That should be a good thing for the dollar, right? I mean, look at the ruble. It goes down and the Russian state struggles while the Russian people panic. Meanwhile the dollar is up and everything's great in the US, from the stock market to the GDP. Up good, down bad, is that how it works? And why is the dollar rising when our trade deficit is still above $40B per month?

Currency strength—a propensity to constantly rise—has always been the dollar's curse. It's why we print, to keep it from going up, because if we didn't, it would just go up up and away, all the way up to currency heaven. It is a characteristic of being the reserve currency, and it is a vicious circle that drives the dollar's exchange rate and our trade deficit up.

The vicious circle works like this. Foreigners settle some portion of international trade in dollars, and then they hold onto those dollars as a kind of final settlement, savings or reserves. This drains dollar liquidity from the foreign exchange which causes the dollar's exchange rate to rise. As the dollar's exchange rate rises, this causes foreigners to want to hold more dollars (because dollars are gaining purchasing power for them locally, not as a reward for hard work, but as a gift of timing) which drains even more dollar liquidity from the foreign exchange which causes the dollar to rise even more and so on.

This currency strength—the propensity to constantly rise—plagues the US economy by making our exports appear more expensive which reduces exports and we lose jobs and profits in the export sector. Meanwhile, it makes foreign imports appear cheaper than what we make for ourselves here at home which increases imports and we lose jobs and profits in the domestic economy. (The jobs and profits, BTW, are exported to our trading partners, sort of…)

We combat this currency strength by printing (which actually means printing debt IOUs, i.e. borrowing more dollars into existence) and feeding a portion of that new liquidity into the foreign exchange where it's being drained by foreigners. Yet even if we print enough to keep the dollar from rising, it still causes our trade deficit to rise because of a net outflow of dollars, which causes us to lose jobs and profits in pretty much all sectors except the financial sector, which absolutely THRIVES on this "vicious circle".

So the dollar's exchange rate is actually a function of our pouring new dollar liquidity into the FX versus their draining of dollar liquidity from the FX. If they are draining faster than we are pouring, the dollar will rise, like it's doing right now!

Before 1971, things were a little different. Exchange rates were fixed, and our trade deficit wasn't really an imbalance in the same way it is today, because we paid for it by running down our systemic "savings" (gold). In essence, because the international currency used to pay for our overconsumption in the 60s was a real and exhaustible good (gold), it wasn't purely notional like it is today. As they drained dollars, we poured gold. From about 1957 until 1971, we emptied our gold reserves from more than 20,000 tonnes down to just 9,000. At that point we said "no more," and started running up our debt rather than running down our savings.

Notice that, at this point, both currency exchange rates and the gold price were finally allowed to fluctuate, to adjust, to release some pressure. It certainly wasn't a clean float, but it was a significant change to the international monetary system that occurred in 1971. It's kinda sorta like this (if you're still following my analogy), if "pouring" gold was like fighting fire with water, pouring notional debt denominated in a purely symbolic unit was like fighting fire with gasoline.

Of course they didn't have to accept our debt. They could have bought gold from the open market with those 1972 dollars, or they could have bought anything really for that matter. But when we look at our trade deficit since then, we can see that they continued hoarding dollars as the final settlement. In cumulative nominal terms, it's $9.5T since 1971. In real terms it's quite a bit more.

If we'd kept running down our "savings" in 1971, it would have lasted for another $10 Billion in net imports rather than the $10 Trillion it has so far. Even at today's gold price of around $1,200, it would have only brought another $350 Billion in net imports. Saying "no more" was a darn good deal for "US" in 1971, and apparently for everyone else too, since they (you?) were the ones who made it all possible! :D

As we used this privilege you gave us to build the greatest superpower this planet has ever seen, with a customized Humvee in front of every McMansion, and eleven carrier groups keeping the rest of you safe, look at what else you got for supporting us! The Dow went from 600 to 18,000!!! Can you believe it? Let me just say thank you ROW, and you're welcome (for a 3,000% return on your investment in the pure exceptionalism of the greatest superpower this planet has ever known… not counting all the dividends along the way. ;).

"You've got to realize that it is both economically and politically undesirable for any currency to appreciate against its peer currencies due to its use as a safe haven. Remember the Swiss franc? As soon as it started rising due to safe haven use they started printing it back down. The dollar is no different except that it's got a whole world full of paper obligations denominated in it. So when it blows, the fireworks will be something to behold."

-From my 2012 Interview
(recommended for rereading)
_________

"The US Federal Reserve has pulled the trigger. Emerging markets must now brace for their ordeal by fire.

They have collectively borrowed $5.7 trillion in US dollars, a currency they cannot print and do not control. This hard-currency debt has tripled in a decade, split between $3.1 trillion in bank loans and $2.6 trillion in bonds. It is comparable in scale and ratio-terms to any of the biggest cross-border lending sprees of the past two centuries.

Much of the debt was taken out at real interest rates of 1pc on the implicit assumption that the Fed would continue to flood the world with liquidity for years to come. The borrowers are "short dollars", in trading parlance. They now face the margin call from Hell as the global monetary hegemon pivots.

The Fed dashed all lingering hopes for leniency on Wednesday. The pledge to keep uber-stimulus for a "considerable time" has gone, and so has the market's security blanket, or the Fed Put as it is called. Such tweaks of language have multiplied potency in a world of zero rates.

Officials from the Bank for International Settlements say privately that developing countries may be just as vulnerable to a dollar shock as they were in the Fed tightening cycle of the late 1990s, which culminated in Russia's default and the East Asia Crisis.

[…]

Stress is spreading beyond Russia, Nigeria, Venezuela and other petro-states to the rest of the emerging market nexus, as might be expected since this is a story of evaporating dollar liquidity...

Turkey relies on imports for almost all its energy and should be a beneficiary of lower crude prices. Yet the Turkish lira has fallen 12pc since the end of November. The Borsa Istanbul 100 index is down 20pc in dollar terms.

Indonesia had to intervene on Wednesday to defend the rupiah. Brazil's real has fallen to a 10-year low against the dollar, as has the index of emerging market currencies. Sao Paolo's Bovespa index is down 23pc in dollars in three weeks.

The slide can be self-feeding. Funds are forced to sell holdings if investors take fright and ask for their money back, shedding the good with the bad. Pimco’s Emerging Market Corporate Bond Fund bled $237m in November, and the pain is unlikely to stop as clients discover that 24pc of its portfolio is in Russia.

[…]

The Fed has already slashed its bond purchases to zero, withdrawing $85bn of net stimulus each month. It is clearly itching to raise rates for the first time in seven years. This is the reason why the dollar index (DXY) has jumped 12pc since May, smashing through its 30-year downtrend line, a "seismic change" in the words of HSBC.

[…]

This time the threat does not come from insolvent states. They have learned the lesson of the late 1990s. Few have dollar debts. But their companies and banks most certainly do, some 70pc of GDP in Russia, for example. This amounts to much the same thing in macro-economic terms.

Private debt morphs into state debt since governments cannot allow key pillars of their economies to collapse. Does anybody believe that the Kremlin can walk away from $50bn of external debt owed by its oil giant Rosneft? Or that the $170bn debt owed by Brazil's Petrobas is a purely private matter? Standard & Poor's says the only reason it has not yet slashed Petrobras to junk is because of implicit state support.

[…]

World finance is rotating on its axis, says Stephen Jen, from SLJ Macro Partners. The stronger the US boom, the worse it will be for those countries on the wrong side of the dollar.

"Emerging market currencies could melt down. There have been way too many cumulative capital flows into these markets in the past decade. Nothing they can do will stop potential outflows, as long as the US economy recovers. Will this trend lead to a 1997-1998-like crisis? I am starting to think that this is extremely probable for 2015," he said."


_________

"I’ve gotten a 100 percent raise. Not as a reward for hard work or long-term loyalty to my employer, but as a gift of timing. This windfall isn’t a one-off like a bonus, nor is it evenly spaced like paychecks after a promotion. I get richer at random. Almost every time I visit the ATM, what I take out is a smaller slice of what I make than it was the time before. I’m paid in dollars, but I live in Russia, where the currency is currently collapsing; as the ruble loses value, I effectively get a raise. This week alone, at the time of this writing, my salary’s worth has increased by 20%.

[…]

There is a giddy gambler’s thrill to watching your money gain value for reasons beyond your control. The world becomes your Costco; “gotta stock up on house slippers, they’re so cheap and you never know when you’ll have ten people over and they all need to wear house slippers!” As the ruble’s decline accelerated, my dollar-denominated friends and I looked up exchange rates as frequently as sports fans who can’t not check the score on their phones under the table at a nice restaurant. We texted each other the latest numbers, strategized about the timing of ATM visits and large purchases. (One friend who has held off on extending her gym membership until it runs out this month gloats daily as the currency collapses.) Taxis no longer felt like an indulgence and on more than one occasion, I ordered an extra two entrees for dinner to meet the delivery minimum.

[…]

A couple days later, I met up with a group of mainly-expat friends at a bar called Lumberjack, where the waiters have the kind of facial hair favored by Civil War soldiers and wear tight flannel shirts and wool slacks fastened to suspenders. (Moscow is obsessed with Williamsburg.) When the conversation among the expats inevitably turned to the ruble, the group was split into two camps along the lines of the currencies in which our paychecks were denominated. While those of us paid in dollars, euros or pounds lived in a time of bounty, a woman paid in rubles said she wouldn’t be able to leave the house when she went home to America for the holidays, she was so broke. One half of a very cute couple was paid in dollars, while her boyfriend was paid in rubles. One small step in the fight against the gender pay gap?! No, that was the cheap cocktails’ expensive ingredients talking.

The bar was loud, but I felt we ought to be whispering, or not discussing the topic at all. When I first drank at this bar in September, I ordered the Penicillin, a cocktail made with ginger, honey and lemon, blended scotch whisky and Islay single malt scotch. I had first tried it at a bar with not unsimilar decor underneath the BQE. It cost 450 rubles, and my credit card bill reflected this with a charge of $12.60. When I recommended the drink to the expats at the table, it cost $8.54. How can a bar in central Moscow stay in business serving excellent, strong, classic cocktails made with imported liquors? If Lumberjack has yet to raise its prices, yesterday the Penicillin would have cost anywhere from $7.72 to $5.68, depending on the time of day you ordered it.

Gradually companies that import consumer goods to Russia are announcing price increases. The period in which Russia was the cheapest place in the world to buy an iPhone was all too short. Still, prices haven’t kept pace with the ruble’s depreciation. Russians aren’t getting raises and can’t afford to spend more money on the same stuff, and retailers won’t be able to hang onto business if they hike up prices. Yet the experts on the radio promise inflation of 15 or 20% early next year. What will happen when people can’t afford to buy groceries?"


_________

"Belarus blocked online stores and news websites Sunday, in an apparent attempt to stop a run on banks and shops as people rushed to secure their savings…



The blockage started on December 19, when the government announced that purchases of foreign currency will be taxed 30 percent and told all exporters to convert half of their foreign revenues into the local currency.

"Looks like the authorities want to turn light panic over the fall of the Belarussian ruble into a real one," Belarus Partisan website wrote, calling the blockages "December insanity."

[…]

As a result, expect to see more of this...





_________

Kommersant, a Russian business daily, said the exporters may have to sell a combined $1bn a day until March. …

The directive forcing state exporters to reduce their dollar holdings amounts to a soft form of the capital controls the government has pledged not to introduce.

Officials insist private companies will not be given orders on how and when to convert their dollar earnings into roubles. But Mr Medvedev appealed to the oligarchs at the meeting last week to manage their forex operations in a “responsible” manner.

“They are being convinced,” said one official last week. “There were no threats of sending anyone to Siberia, just explanations that they would act in a way that is not speculative.”

_________

"I've accepted a position as Chief Economist on the Senate Budget Committee."

_________


_________

"The yuan rose by the most since May after China relaxed rules on banks’ foreign-exchange holdings, allowing them to hold fewer dollars.

[…]

“Some banks may be selling some of their dollar positions as they won’t need to keep them under the new rules,” said Dariusz Kowalczyk, a Hong Kong-based strategist at Credit Agricole CIB. The changes could lead to “low tens of billions in dollars” being freed up, he estimated.

[…]

The central bank is pressing ahead with exchange-rate liberalization and has basically withdrawn from regular intervention in the currency market, Deputy Governor Hu Xiaolian said Nov. 27 in Beijing."



FOA (10/20/00; 14:00:07MD - usagold.com msg#43)
A fireside Chat

Aristotle, said this today:
--------------------------

Aristotle (10/19/2000; 5:44:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 39386) Do you heed your own advice? Thoughts on Trade deficits--big and small

"""""As for the U.S., we are in a unique but temporary position in which we haven't yet had to pay the full price for our past trade deficits. Until that day arrives (with severe currency devaluation), we might be inclined to stand the old terms on their heads and describe our current trade deficit as a FAVORABLE trade position because we are receiving real goods and services from other countries with partial payment (required in excess of our own exports) made in typically depreciating paper of our own easy creation.""""""

-----------

The dollar deficit is truly the main money destruction tool being forced to function in our modern "killing fields" of today! In the past we saw this trade deficit function operate for only short periods as it constricted growth in our US economy! Now, they have not only the US economy but also its currency caught permanently in this long term trap. For the first time since we left the gold standard while making them play by our rules, they now have us. Once before, in 1985 (look at a dollar chart then) we were well on our way to the same problems, but the difference then was that "noone" had a potential alternative reserve currency system to run to when we induced a recession. Today they do and this "waiting in the wings system" is the hatchet tool in the hands of our world markets that will do us in. As the ECB says; """ it's not the Euro is too low, your dollar is too high ,,,,,,,, so go ahead, make my day and fix it"""! (smile) Indeed, no intervention by the US now is a stab in the heart of the dollar economy.

The US has had the rest of the world in somewhat of a trap also. For a long, long time. Perhaps from when we told them that the world gold exchange standard bearer would no longer ship gold for dollars. From that point on we (USA, my country) could inflate our money without consequences.

In fact, we had to inflate in this "Darwin" fashion over all these years! Truly, if we did not inflate long term and ship liquidity (created dollars) outside the US, our dollar's value would always soar above other strong currencies. This is because of its world settlement function. Notice I said soar over their value instead of they would fall away from our value. There is a difference. As in our recent hikes, we saw that the internal basket of goods prices for both dollars and Euros dictated that these currencies are at opposite extremes in value and should reverse. Further; I use Darwin because everyone came to think that our sending money overseas was part of the "natural order of things" (chimps (smile)). They thought and still do think that the world just craves our money! They will have a different opinion later.

We must reconcile with the truth of this process by looking at the dollar world from 1971; the one time the dollar soared too high for too long it began killing off our economy. Forcing us into the same printing policy other lesser nations must employ to keep their exchange rate level. Yes, even the USA must sell overseas to create jobs and profits at home. A huge trade deficit in a reserve currency nation, induced by an overvalued currency like we are seeing now, raises the currency's value even further above other strong fiats. This is the way such a reserve system naturally reacts when there is no local reduction in liquidity to check it.

A regular (non reserve currency) nation's money would suffer a different fate if they inflated the native currency the way we do. Its non trade settlement function begets a falling exchange rate. That in turn drives then into the same policy of hyper inflation but its effects are felt in higher prices, immediately.

Again, conversely, a reserve currency always rises in exchange function from this forced "liquidity draining" trade settlement. Once on this trend, over time, the higher its value goes the more people finance in other mediums (yen carry, gold carry, Euro carry, oil carry) This further dries up the fractional reserve created dollar reserves as the demand for dollars grows ever stronger from its ever higher cost trade settlements. Settlements dictated because IMF / dollar protocols demand dollar use as settlement.

In the past if the system began driving the dollar too high and forcing US trade deficits, the Fed would raise rates to throw us (USA) into an economic recession that broke the vicious deficit trade cycle. Knowing full well that it would be a short recession policy because "noone" would jump the dollar ship before the medicine could work. Looking around back then and we see there was no other reserve currency ship to jump to. We either lose jobs and profits from an "overvalued currency" or from an induced recession. The first can lead to a financial breakdown, the lasts corrects things after only a short while. Naturally, we embark on the quick fix of a fast recession.

This is why our times are so very different now. What the "chimps" came to know over this 20+ year period as a strong America in a high dollar, was always something our money creators were striving to fight against. We truly have always been inflating our currency for these many years in an attempt to keep the natural effects of the IMF reserve system from spiking the currency too high up. Again, if we had a regular currency, our policies would have been reflected in sky high prices for everything. What most of us "smart chimps" know as price inflation reflecting money supply inflation.

OK, let me sip some starbuck's:

Ever since the Euro was seen in by US policy makers as an eventual success, our treasury has tried to put its best "New York Spin" on the ongoing process. Simply stated; from the early to mid 90s we are in favor of a strong dollar policy. In reality, with the advent of the Euro and the evolving stance of the BIS, this has made our "economy killing" strong dollar unavoidable.

There is no way the Fed can create a new recession now without everyone jumping ship for another currency reserve. There is no possible way the Euro Zone will suffer as big a downfall as the US in another policy induced recession. Just looking at their closed economy and debt structure tells that story by itself. Any US slowdown means a run for the Euro, yet weakness in the Euro means the US must inflate at a torrid rate. We now stand toe to toe and wait to see who will fall first. All the while our world dollar gold markets are caught in the cross fire!

This is where we have been for the last decade. This explains why the DOW and all its paper cousins have enjoyed the effects of a massive, ongoing dollar expansion worldwide without any official policy interference. Right when we were to the point of changing policy to slow things down, the Euro was to be introduced in a year or two and risked taking away or sharing the dollar's standard.

The "lesser chimps", lost in Western thought keep waiting for the fed to induce their deflationary policy. (I was monkey - ing around in this area for a while myself) (grin) It is not coming. To do so now would commit the dollar to non reserve status in a hurry and produce a massive price inflation at home (right now) as all these unneeded dollar reserves come racing home. Remember, the ECB does not need dollar reserves! The Euro is a stand alone currency representing an in house trading block. They may have to buy dollars for oil, but others must also buy Euros for European produced goods. If the Euro went to .10 to the dollar the EuroZone economy would not stop. But all international dollar trade would grind to a halt. The USA could not sell anything internationally, at all! Every other nation would simply abandon the IMF protocols and use their native currencies to trade directly with Europe. Even Arabia would break their SDR basket peg and trade oil for Euro goods, either using their currency or directly if needed.

Our outdoor fireplace is getting hot, let's step away.

The lesser of the two evils today (and this is the one the ECB / BIS enjoys watching) is our current frozen policy. We can no longer cut off the strong dollar / growing deficit circle by raising rates and invoking a recession as in the past. This time we must continue to pump the reserves at all costs in a process that only floods the world with more dollars. It's called a currency hyperinflation and is one we (as US people) have never witnessed in modern times. The pressure has built up full volume now as all escape valves are being closed. We are well on the way to a derivatives exploding event that will break into the open with a cascading dollar and full force US price inflation.

This is the "why" for the gold derivatives policy that Physical Gold Advocates are now enjoying. Also one that leveraged paper gold investors are being tortured with. In effect, we "gold buyers" are trading 1971 style dollar derivatives contracts for the physical gold we never could get then. And doing so before a 1971 style gold event that comes in the form of a denouncement of the contractual viability of all gold contracts. Let's call it "no gold for dollar derivatives"!

All the while, just like in 71 other "chUmps" (smile) are saving these same paper gold substitutes to protect themselves from this same crisis. Further; many of them have sold their physical gold for use by the BBs. I think SteveH calls it OPG (other peoples gold). This is where the real supply that fills a Physical Gold Advocate nation's coffers (and mine) comes from. It's truly a good deal in light of what's coming. Let's not mess it up by talking about who is buying all that gold, rather just point everyone to watch how much is being sold!

The US cannot walk away from hiking our ""gold trail"" now. Because "this process" is one of the few tools available to them for keeping the dollar perception in a good light. In effect by slowing the currency transition process they are doing exactly what world dollar holders need them to do. They will inflate these derivatives until in effect; our modern gold market bankrupts itself as supply is exhausted. I say, good! (smile) But once we get to that stage, I expect that a super US economic downturn will ensue. Then the fed will go wide open and cover everything in sight to keep us going! The ongoing price inflation will be driving everything from physical gold to real estate through the roof.

I submit that many smart hard money thinkers like Traveler and Thai Gold (and many others) are walking forward but looking backward. I (myself) have tried this before but usually run into something I didn't see in front of me (smile). That something today, for modern hard money followers is in the form of an internationally induced transition away from the US dollar as a reserve currency. Such a policy evolution has the effects of driving the lead currency's creator into printing press mode as an only option to maintaining the viability of our economic and financial structures.

Yes, it eventually breaks everything! But this is nothing new for us gold history buffs and it's what has happened in countless modern national fiats around the world today. Nations that don't have a reserve currency to play with. We will do like their citizens do, continue to use dollars but carry in our pockets whatever new reserve is in fashion, as a backup! Be it gold or Euros or both. In addition, our entire financial structure (like in these other nations) will change to operating in an inflation economy. Money will be lost, big time and made big time, but things will still be financed, bought and sold. Houses will double, triple then double again in price, even as financing rates approach 35%, 40% or whatever. We will also follow the (then) prevailing world policy concerning physical gold, solely because it will make economic sense to our officials.

As such; like today, everyone uses dollar reserves because it keeps us within accepted international policy. Across the currency warfare valley our "gold trail" is coming to, we will also use gold as a free reserve medium. Mostly because it's what the leading reserve policy of that time will dictate and that will keep us on good trading terms.

No, we will not confiscate gold again. Perhaps if it is designated as US legal tender and caught up in some kind of currency change, that will pose a risk! But that's just following the same fiat rollovers so many other countries now must employ and will have little impact on most gold owners. Besides, PGA's know how to avoid such a trap through physical gold ownership diversity! US Eagles held along with a diverse group of new and old coins fit my pocket just fine. I don't worry about the premium on any ounces I buy today. In the future, the total price we now pay will probably be the premium anyway (huge smile from ear to ear!)

Again, as international trends follow the use of physical gold into the free trading asset realm, no longer as an official money, then its value and ownership will soar the world over. To date this is the future before us as the dollar fails its function.

Truly, a relationship with an honest international physical gold dealer will no doubt place oneself at the center of this exciting new financial evolution. (I'm trying to think of a dealer that would fit that description? I know I just saw one on this page. Somewhere?) (smile)

Lastly: Don't tell me an inflating dollar economy doesn't work this way! I have lived in many, many lands and have witnessed and used such inflating systems. Look around for yourself at how non reserve moneys are impacted by their native policy today and the effects of those policies on all real assets. There are few examples that do not follow this regular fiat price inflation mode. Our dollar use and function is about to revert to a lesser more common level, suffering its drop away from reserve need. In doing so it will change as never before in our time. In fact, it's only the current gold pricing system that may experience a larger change. Not only in use but in Western gold value perception.

""""We watch this new gold market together, yes?""""""

Thank you one and all for sharing this time
Trail Guide

_________

Not sure what if anything this means for 2015, but my view counter just hit the jackpot this week:


I was a little short on time this holiday season, so don't be alarmed if this post seems somewhat abbreviated by my standards. I have a feeling we'll be talking about this topic for a while, and anyway I wanted to prompt you to think about the possibilities for the Fire of 2015 yourself, rather than tell you what I think you should think. ;D


Happy New Year everyone!!!

Sincerely,
FOFOA

491 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 400 of 491   Newer›   Newest»
Testing said...

Sorry, "It´s NOT directed specifically at FOFOA, so everyone, please comment"

Franco said...

For the past few years oil has been pretty steady at 90-100. What changed recently that drove the price down so much and so quickly? Demand down? Supply up? Manipulation in the futures market?

Testing said...

I found this after writng the post... goes right to the point.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-12/us-stocks-most-overvalued-relative-rest-world-history

M said...

Franco

Just like 2008, falling demand. But also over-supply. I was wondering about an oil bubble a few months back. Here it is.

Xavier said...

M, Franco, everyone

What are your opinions on the oil price fall duration? And the impact on the gold price? The Saudis seem determined to keep the price down, might be at least a year until supply falls back in line with demand and prices return to equilibrium. Gold must surely go down in price if it is to stick within the historic ratio of gold to oil.

Franco said...

M:

You said "Just like 2008, falling demand.". Do you have any data to back that up?

Phat Repat said...

Well, if there's any doubt as to where the oil price is going, then this should clear that up:

Retail investors predict a bottom for oil

Muad'Grumps said...

It looks like a deal was struck between SA and China. Cheap oil to build out Asia.


Asian investment bank to develop the continent in order to solve the domestic industry overcapacity?

http://www.digitimes.com.tw/tw/dt/n/shwnws.asp?id=0000407983_P0OLRAUK768RS04LGPGSE


Silk Road Economic Belt, 21st Century Maritime Silk Road will create new opportunities for the country traveled

http://filipino.cri.cn/301/2015/01/12/103s133922.htm

2015 Northeast Asia and diplomatic assignments in Korea

http://news20.busan.com/controller/newsController.jsp?newsId=20150113000016




nearlynapping said...

Based on what I have read about oil, this looks like a classic boom/bust cycle. The price is down due to a combination of over capacity and decreased worldwide demand. Capacity was on steroids from 2005-2014 from the financialization of the futures market. This caused malinvestment similar to what resulted from the financialization of the subprime lending market. Don't be surprised to see oil below $40 for a while.

It's not that the Saudi's want lower oil, its that there is nothing that they can do about it unless they unilaterally cut production which will simply subsidize the higher cost producers.

What is particularly interesting to me is the gold/oil ratio which is now over 25. Gold has held up very well during both the oil price fall and the dollar increase. Any thoughts on why that is and whether gold will ultimately follow oil down?


BustinStones said...

The paper price of gold?? ;)

Muad'Grumps said...

Oil has nothing to do with gold. It's the rise and fall of credit.

The fact oil priced in USD is dropping is probably a tell that we're transitioning to the new system. No more petrodollars to be recycled.

Tommy2Tone said...

On FOFOA's blog,
Flat Shoe Lance said...
"Oil has nothing to do with gold. It's the rise and fall of credit."

Meanwhile,
Another said:
"It was once said that "gold and oil can never flow in the same direction". If the current price of oil doesn't change soon we will no doubt run out of gold.

This line of thinking is very real in the world today but it is never discussed openly. You see oil flow is the key to gold flow. It is the movement of gold in the hidden background that has kept oil at these low prices. Not military might, not a strong US dollar, not political pressure, no it was real gold. In very large amounts. Oil is the only commodity in the world that was large enough forgold to hide in. Noone could make the South African / Asian connection when the question was asked, "how could LBMA do so many gold deals and not impact the price". That's because oil is being partially used to pay for gold! We are going to find out that the price of gold, in terms of real money ( oil ) has gone thru the roof over these last few years. People wondered how the physical gold market could be "cornered" when it's currency price wasn't rising and no shortages were showing up? The CBs were becoming the primary suppliers by replacing openly held gold with CB certificates. This action has helped keep gold flowing during a time that trading would have locked up.


:p

Indenture said...

""Oil has nothing to do with gold. It's the rise and fall of credit."

Gold, Oil and Money in the Free Market

Muad'Grumps said...

There's another way of looking at it. Oil was the only market big enough to absorb credit/debt while gold took a back seat.

Jeff said...

Phat,

Serenity now! You don't say who shattered your tranquility; I hope it wasn't my semi-rhetorical question. I'm in agreement with FOFOA's assessment that private, hot money is the current dollar support.

I also agreed with the last half of Anand's comment, but I don't believe that oversupply has driven down the price of oil. If there is a supply problem, IMO, it's undersupply of that other commodity we discuss endlessly.

Phat, what good is another $50/bbl in a currency that's smoldering when you already have a pile that won't buy you what you want?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag

2000 Flushes said...

Greetings! You may remember me as the poster immortalized at the end of FOFOA's unforgettable November 21, 2011 post, Discussion Forum. Hello, hello, it's good to be back.

So, I was sifting through my bookmarks and found an article from April 27, 2008 by Clive Maund (who?), that I read on that day and filed away thinking it was interesting, as it was so radically doomer-contrarian for the time, but in its own unique way. Its failure to foresee Lehman etc. led me to dismiss it. ("Global hegemony? LOL The U.S. is going to collapse duhhhh!")

Although he missed the summer/autumn crash, his big-picture analysis seems surprisingly astute, 6 1/2 years later, and possibly sheds light on the issue of why Freegold hasn't happened yet. He argues that the U.S. "grand strategy" is and has been:

1) Seize effective control of the world oil supply (Iraq invasion, still working on Iran) to the extent necessary to be able to control high-level flows

2) Instigate various geopolitical changes (coups etc.) that will improve positioning for later moves (Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine, the various color revolutions, eastward NATO expansion, etc.)

3) Surround and isolate Russia, eventually forcing its capitulation as the last remaining major independent energy producer (happening before our eyes)

4) Use newfound energy monopoly-provider status to blackmail nation-consumers into buying & holding USTs

5) Use newfound massive revenues from energy sales to patch up the national finances, thus averting hyperinflation in conjunction with (4)

It's basically the PNAC/neocon plan, resulting in the U.S. as the world's sole hyperpower with a gun to the heads of all other nations. Though it does not by any means answer all of our questions, it does seem more or less consistent with reality.

I looked around for other work by this Mr. Maund and haven't found anything really notable. Too bad.

Methinks if this is the game, and if the U.S. is successful -- it sure doesn't look like much is standing in their way -- it can go on for quite some time.

Indenture said...

2000: Four Billion Asians and One Billion Indians will still require physical gold. Controlling the flow of oil is one thing, controlling the flow of gold is entirely different. When the flow of gold ceases the system will fracture.

Anand Srivastava said...


Jeff:

I am not sure if under supply of Gold is as important to Oil and SA in the present times. I think bigger problems are there.

Oil is no longer the only game in town. Solar Electricity is reaching the point where it is putting a downward pressure on the price oil can extract. Its no longer a monopoly market. I have been following Elon Musk and Solar City/Tesla with much interest.

And with the advent of Russia and US Shale, SA is no longer the swing producer. At this point SA would have to stop producing oil completely to cause the production to go below demand.

I think the problem with SA started beginning last year, when SA realized that it is going to be marginalized. SA started to say a few words against US. And towards the end of the year we have seen articles in the US against the Wahabis, the dominant sect in SA. So things have not been rosy between the two.

So basically the cooperation between the two is lost. And it is because SA is getting marginalized. So it is reacting the only way it can, by keeping its production high and letting the price drop. It has enough money to let this go on for several years, if Dollar remains viable. If the dollar doesn't remain viable, Shale will be gone, and oil will rise to where it should be, considering that Shale is a technology (used by others as well) that will set the upper limit on the price of Oil.

I think when Another talked about Oil and Gold, SA had the monopoly on oil. It could control oil prices. So it was the symbol of Producers. But when China came along, it changed the equation somewhat. Now China became the symbol of Producers. It can be said that Gold and consumables cannot move in the same direction. China is sending stuff, and is getting paid in Gold (and worthless treasuries).

I think that Oil has lost its special standing over the last decade (and SA over the last year), and is just like another item to be traded. It doesn't invalidate what Another was saying, it just changes the meaning somewhat.

KnallGold said...

"The fact oil priced in USD is dropping is probably a tell that we're transitioning to the new system. No more petrodollars to be recycled. "

Same thoughts here. The end of the petrodollar. 40$ versus 120$, how much less $-flow is that?

And touché by Indenture, it's the flow stupid! I'm wondering if the current (relative) strength of POG vis-a-vis oil's crash is actually not so counter-intuitive.

But of course flushes is right that US policy is full of neoconster/MIC stuff. Though, psychopaths tend also to make mistakes. Yes, I called it psychopathic, there's enough out there to support it. How does he react when he knows you know?

Jeff said...

Solar too? Then I have some shale oil leases I would like to sell you. And some nuclear reactors, LNG terminals, ethanol factories... Actually I won't sell them to you, but the industries that pop up do just that with great regularity. Or maybe you think SA is determined to put Tesla out of business? None of these fads threatens them.

I had my doubts about SA being the swing producer too, but they are definitely the price maker here.

China isn't getting paid in gold, but they are buying it. At least they were the past few years and now they've probably moved closer to the mines again, just as in 1997. That's a problem isn't it? What would you do, shut off oil production and turn the world against you, or give the world what it wants and be blameless?

Anand Srivastava said...

I don't believe SA is getting paid in Gold, either.

I agree that they are the price maker still, because they are forcing the price to go lower. For them to lose that status they would have to reduce oil production. They will have to become a marginal oil producer.

Jeff said...

So by pumping full out and driving down the price SA remains the price maker? And the target is not shale but the whole market? Sounds like Freegold!

Anand Srivastava said...

I would think the target is Shale and the USD. The faster it hyperinflates the faster SA will be able to sell Oil normally, and regain its primacy. If it goes too slow, US maybe able to destabilize them.

Phat Repat said...

Jeff

I'm quite comfortable with where we are at and where we are going. I do notice a disconnect with oil among several folks that are normally in-sync when it comes to FG. Thus my query. Though I recognize the FG BOK is quite large, I still go back to the need for a simplified interpretation article providing the salient features and milestones that would validate the theory.

As Einstein remarked, "If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself."

Roacheforque said...

Even with natural gas now competing with oil for "usage value" it seems pretty simple to me:

"Today, all currencies are traded against the dollar for it's usage as a medium of oil exchange! Take away that link and the entire currency/ debt exchange system, as we know it will collapse! The US$ must be maintained as the "most used" if the other currencies are to have a chance to survive."

It is good that oil still flows in dollars (at any price) and that dollar velocity continues from this FIRE $ALE - this gives the other major trading currencies their final chance to survive ...

Dante_Eu said...

Phat Repat, What's contradictory about it? :)

Freegold predicts that physical gold will devalue everything, including oil. In that light Gold-to-Oil ratio of 25 is only a beginning (barely) and no anomaly. If freegold is happening before our eyes this is what one would expect. My 2 cents.

Phat Repat said...

Dante_Eu

Marvelous, marvelous... ;-)

What are you using to measure this devaluation?

Dante_Eu said...

How much real stuff one can get for 1 ounce of pure gold. :-)

Phat Repat said...

Wouldn't that be using the current 'paper' price as a means of comparison? Hmmm...

Dante_Eu said...

Well, as a mere mortal yes. BTW, in my local currency (if memory serves me well), I'm paying same price for 1 ounce as when it was 1.500 US$.

So, you guys who have the advantage of world reserve currency are lucky bastards. :-) For now.

Phat Repat said...

Dante_Eu

Fair enough. Yes, lucky for now (and I continue to add). Carnage to begin towards end of the year unless an 'event'. Looking forward to FG and a more balanced system; though I will likely hate that one too, or so I have heard. ;-)

Muad'Grumps said...

How about this? A little quid pro quo?

Saudi Arabia, Tajikistan to join Beijing-backed development bank

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/13/china-aiib-
idUSL3N0US3D020150113

nearlynapping said...

Interesting thought that the gold/oil ratio (approximately 26.8 today) may be a sign of gold beginning to devalue everything.

So if less dollars are needed for oil to flow, is the thesis that some of the excess dollars are flowing through gold?

vizeet srivastava said...

I think Chinese government is not accumulating that much gold as there are rumors. They have huge shadow banking that runs on physical gold. Their people do want to own gold and they are richer than we Indians. Not saying they have not accumulated but probably not lot.

BustinStones said...

As for the old agreement of oil/gold ratio, it went out the window after the gulf war.

KnallGold said...

Confirmed:

"UAE Says OPEC Will No Longer Shore Up Oil Price"

http://news.yahoo.com/opec-cannot-protect-oil-price-uae-minister-073902651.html


Muad'Grumps said...

@vizeet

This might change your mind.

https://www.bullionstar.com/blog/koos-jansen/china-aims-official-gold-reserves-8500t/

All-round, Multi-channel Increases In Gold Levels. Fulfill Our Part In Enabling Gold To Accomplish Its Strategic Mission. By Song Xin, General Manager of the China National Gold Group Corporation, Party Secretary and President of the China Gold Association.

1. Relax gold import controls, grant large scale gold enterprises permits to import gold....

2. Establish a gold reserve building fund. This can be seeded using capital from the State Treasury, and open it for participation by private-sector capital in the public. It should be controlled by the State and used to target diverse off-shore gold resources, acquire mines and raw gold and in so doing, extend our reach beyond our borders and add a layer of opaque reserves to otherwise standard reserve numbers.

3. Establish a Gold bank. We need to establish our gold bank as soon as possible, and enable it to break the barrier between the commodity and monetary world. It can further help us acquire reserves and give us more say and control in the gold market. It may be guided under the PBOC and led by the China Gold Association, involving leading gold industry companies and commercial banks, and it’s business would include: gold pricing (fix), gold financing and leasing, gold-guaranteed payments, gold saving accounts, gold lending, gold production chain financing and issuance and trading of paper gold and other gold investments. This gold bank can then naturally use market-oriented methods to change commodity gold into monetary gold reserves, thus help us increase our strategic gold reserves.

This is why I keep an eye on China.

Unknown said...

Who is to say that a tiny bit of China gold does not go to SA as a kicker to keep oil at low prices, which China currently hoards ... along with gold?

I have heard of such a "market cornering" theory once advanced, but doubt that this is the case today ...

Michael dV said...

Lance...from Koos Jansen:
In the short term the Chinese will not back the renminbi with gold (establish a fixed renminbi price for gold), but support it with gold so it has sufficient credibility for the world to accept it as a trade and reserve currency.
he comes so close to understand the coming use of gold in the monetary system but just can't quite get there. The gold standard of yore is still on his mind.
It is amazing that with the ECB shouting from the roof tops (or at least not hiding what they are doing) that more 'experts' do not comment on this possible use of gold.
My guess is that they still believe that 'there is not enough gold' for it to be used as a reserve asset.
I guess they have not considered that it could be repriced higher. Maybe they are afraid to dream so big.

Michael dV said...

vs
I'm not sure the numbers back you up. China seems to be the largest gold 'consumer' and on my trip to China 3 years ago the gold stores were pretty busy. I was in Zhu Zhuo which is a few hundred miles inland from HK and in that 'tiny town' (of a few million) there were several gold stores with great inventory.
I see China as increasingly interested in gold and even though they might not have the 'cultural affinity' that Indians have, they have been give a green light to buy and seem to be doing it.

Anand Srivastava said...

That 8500 tons is a downward revision. They had intended to get 10000 tons. I would think the revision points to the crisis occurring earlier than expected.

vizeet srivastava said...

Flat Shoe Lance
Koos himself wrote that PBOC holds 4000 tonnes at this moment last year.
https://www.bullionstar.com/blog/koos-jansen/chinese-weekly-gold-demand-highest-since-february/
That figure makes more sense to me.

Michael dV
I agree China is the largest consumer of gold. But that does not mean PBOC is accumulating that much. In FG PBOC won't need lot of Gold. Chinese will need lot of gold in FG. That is what the government is doing.

vizeet srivastava said...

"That is why, in order for gold to fulfill its destined mission, we must raise our gold holdings a great deal, and do so with a solid plan. Step one should take us to the 4,000 tonnes mark, more than Germany and become number two in the world, next, we should increase step by step towards 8,500 tonnes, more than the US."
https://www.bullionstar.com/blog/koos-jansen/china-aims-official-gold-reserves-8500t/

Michael dV said...

vs
I agree that much (perhaps most) of the gold imported into China is held by citizens.
Brilliant from a FG perspective.

JJ said...

Last time I saw similar observations circulating was in Q1-13.

http://goldsilverworlds.com/investing/big-bullish-gold-bet-with-call-options-on-friday-jan-9th/

Jeff said...

Anand, I would say the revision is the crisis. Too many dollars, not enough gold. We aren't walking the trail now, we are running it.

Roacheforque said...

I'm not sure China knows how much gold China has, but it could be a surprising amount.
On the topic of dollar liquidity or the "vicious circle" described in this post, I am wondering if the expectation of FED easing is more responsible than real world FX "draining"?
If I remember correctly, FED liquidity swap operations never came under the description of (announced) QE, so they could be ongoing (not sure if and where they must be publicly proclaimed) and would eases said drain, and dollar strength, based on real world liquidity injections ...
would they not?

Muad'Grumps said...

http://www.thebigresetblog.com/index.php/the-chinese-governments-gold-policy-from-the-horses-mouth/

Key points:

"The SHFE should make full use of the future market price discovery (we should not be dependent of US manipulated (COMEX) prices – wm) and its function to manage risks to steadily and advance the healthy development of our gold risk-management market, adding to fundamental policies framework supporting the gold market. With the central aim of letting the market do its proper job, we need to make good and keep good the policies and regulations towards gold futures contracts and related businesses, making the gold futures market deep and with attention to details, thereby raising the level of service towards the broader private sector economic development."

"Developing our gold-related industries will not only help raise the competitiveness of these industries, but also help other mining and resource industries..."

"Commercial banks should look towards the entire supply chain from gold mining to fabricating and value-added processing to final sales, practically innovate new financial products that are effective in helping each area in the chain with financial service. We need to cater to the needs of enterprises and market development at the same time, be innovative in developing business areas of physical gold sales, gold leasing, futures and options on futures too, enrich the product range, so as to satisfy the financing needs and risk-avoiding needs of enterprises. Encourage and guide commercial banks in developing RMB-denominated gold derivatives trading."

"Perfect our settlement service systems. According to the needs of the market, practically improve the system infrastructure of gold account services, offer more convenient and fast physical gold settlement and gold accounts to the market. Learn from the experience of the international market, investigate and propose multi- and different types of gold account services. Improve the gold market’s capital settlement services."

Muad'Grumps said...

It appears from the above the Chinese are setting up a commercial paper market in which gold can easily serve as collateral.

Tommy2Tone said...

Haha FSL...I JUST got it ;) dooh....kinda slow sometimes :P

Muad'Grumps said...

http://www.china-observer.de/index.php/2015/01/14/deutsche-expertise-fur-nachhaltige-planung-in-china/

Germany's probably leaving the Euro and taking Netherlands and Austria with it.

http://www.brecorder.com/business-a-economy/189/1142083/

And not a peep from the US. Remember when DC threw a fit over China and Gwadar back in the day. What a turn of events.

Tommy2Tone said...

Flatulence said:

"Germany's probably leaving the Euro and taking Netherlands and Austria with it."


"Posted by FOFOA on July 18, 2011 9:22 PM
Hello Boricuadigm-Shift,

"FOFOA, I'm not sure how could the EURO survive after the PIIGS. If it does, it will be without these countries."

Don't believe all the noise, and there's a tonne of it right now. They don't know what they are talking about. The euro survives and thrives regardless of how the European debt crisis is ultimately resolved, and no countries will leave the euro. In fact, there are countries trying to get in, and none that will leave short of a coup, revolution or state failure, which isn't even a consideration right now. And even if that happens, the euro will still survive and thrive while the country that leaves will suffer greatly, the local hyperinflation that will ensue being the least of their problems.

Spend some quality time with the Eurosystem's balance of payments and marvel at how remarkably balanced Europe is with the rest of the world. Then compare that with the US balance of payments. As just a quick example, in April (one month) the Eurozone imported only €4.1 billion more goods than it exported. The US, on the other hand, imported $58 billion more goods than it exported, and April was the lowest month yet this year for the US. Of course that's just goods. For services, the US exported $14.5 billion more services than it imported. How much of that do you think was "Wall Street financial services"? Europe also exported more services than it imported, but only €2.8 billion.

So for goods and services combined, the Eurosystem ran a trade deficit of €1.3 billion in April, while the US ran only a $43.5 billion deficit (down from its previous normal $50 billion, but back up in May). Looking back at 2010 (just to get a full year's picture) the US ran a $500 billion goods and services deficit for the year. The Eurosystem (even with those lazy PIIGS) actually ran a trade surplus for the year, exporting more goods and services than it took in! So how can that be? As a currency representing a community of more than 300 million people, the euro is quite healthy compared to the dollar!

Of course there is a huge imbalance inside Europe between the states running a large surplus and those running a large deficit. But with a shared currency the adjustment pressure for such an imbalance is foisted elsewhere, not on the currency. It lands squarely on the politicians, who, like Costata said, couldn't be a more deserving bunch of Aholes. For the dollar, the structural deficit and debt of the US places a massive devaluation pressure directly on the dollar. But for Europe the currency is balanced with no (or very little) adjustment pressure.

The economic flow of goods and services within Europe will of course have to contract as the imbalance retreats. If the euro weakens on the global currency stage Europe will start running an overall trade surplus again, like China, which will soften the blow of a contracting internal economy. If the euro strengthens, things like cheaper oil will help soften the contraction. Internally the politicians have their hands full. No doubt! Externally, the euro is just fine. To the euro, just like FOA said, the politics of the PIIGS and Germany are little more than a sideshow.

And notice I didn't even mention gold yet. Anything that would appear to seriously threatens the euro, like an outright sov. debt default, would explode the price of gold which would simultaneously rescue the euro balance sheet and kill the dollar.

Sincerely,
FOFOA"

Canadarob said...

Nice and timely link. Thank you Jojo.
"Flat shoe lance"........ Genius

Michael dV said...

seems to me if China were serious about a 'fair' gold trade all they would have to do is allow a significant rise in the price of physical....even 50 buck differential would garner enough attention to make a huge impression.
As things stand they simply trade in line with the Forex price (or Comex or LBMA or whatever entity pretends to know what gold should be going for.) This is not a real attempt to establish an alternative gold market. I read it as 'we know what we want but we are not ready to build it yet.'
When China does decide that a 'real' gold market is to be they can probably have it in one trading session. When paper claims are rejected the world will see the difference between metal and the promise of metal.

Muad'Grumps said...

Did you miss the part about a deep gold derivative market?

Paper gold isn't going anywhere.

Bullion Baron said...

Michael dV said... "As things stand they simply trade in line with the Forex price (or Comex or LBMA or whatever entity pretends to know what gold should be going for.)"

We do sometimes see premiums on the Chinese Gold market and arguably that is being stomped out, not by 'the power behind the curtain' as implied by your post, but by the large flow of physical Gold into the country (some of which is likely occurring as a result of the arbitrage opportunities) . If that high level of demand remains, but the flow is reduced due to closure of the faucet then perhaps we see the premiums increase and things start to break in the paper markets...

Michael dV said...

Flats
Since this blog is largely about a 'deep gold derivative market'...i don't think I missed it. The DGDM is what prices gold, the physical market is all that keeps it real (unless you are one of the few who get solid promises (think the Saudis) for delivery made by someone with the ability to actually deliver (think the BIS). If you are no one then you are just living on hope and will be kept happy until you finally really need performance.

Tommy2Tone said...

http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2013/10/gold-as-forex-currency.html

Anonymous said...

Bitcoin goin' down!

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/btcusd - Look at the weekly chart! XD

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha WOW. I knew this day would come. Today is a great day! Will be even better when it hits zero. The wailing of the tards will be epic and schadenfreude will be off the charts.

Bullion Baron said...

Bitcoin is unlikely to ever go to 0, it has it's niche uses even if it never reaches mainstream adoption.

Edwardo said...

Actually, Bitcoin probably will go to zero, because it's raison d'etre, to exist on its own terms, beyond the purview of the state, is fast being revealed to be what it always was, a fanciful pipe dream.

The key passage is here:

"We are regulating financial intermediaries. We are not regulating software development," Lawsky said in a speech at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law in New York City.

Anand Srivastava said...

Edward:

"We are regulating financial intermediaries. We are not regulating software development," Lawsky said in a speech at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law in New York City.

The key word is regulating and not banning.

Bitcoin is actually much simpler to regulate compared to Gold. I don't see any efforts to ban Gold.

Actually Bitcoin is not being used widely because there is no regulation. Without regulation, legal entities don't know what would be legal and what would be illegal. And the regulation will affect the entities doing the bitcoin to Currency conversion. They have already done some regulation in Germany.

Its a new technology. And how it affects the financial system is still being determined. Its a technological progression from Computers -> networks -> internet -> web. It takes several years for a new technology to become ubiquitous. Its only what 5 years since inception, and less than 2 years when the wide world even knew about it.

If you are mistaking Bitcoin (the network) with bitcoin (the currency) you are not aware how it will change the world. Its like when Linux came everybody thought it will not be able to compete with Windows. But look around you, its everywhere. Microsoft is being squeezed from both sides, from mobiles and servers, where Linux dominates. Superior technology takes time to supplant the existing technology.

Existing technology is where Banks control how money is used. Bitcoin creates a future where everybody can directly control their money. It will take time. It is competing against hundreds of years of learned behavior and the technology is still in its nascent stage. It will take at least 10-20 years before it will be able to begin to supplant banks. And regulation is one of the early steps towards that. It is still too difficult to use. That can only happen after Regulation is defined. Of course the regulation will also need to change as applications are created, because we don't even know how it will interact with the rest of the world. Did anybody think that Web will develop at the start of Internet?

Anand Srivastava said...

Wanted to add one more point about Bitcoin.

We have not yet had a micro-payment system, even though it is technically feasible now, without Bitcoin. The problem is that without Bitcoin it will be essentially a proprietary system. Such a system will not be immune to demands from Credit Card companies. That is what happened to the promise of Paypal.

Once Bitcoin gets proper regulation, a micro payment system can be built over it. It will not be subject to credit card companies because the system is no longer proprietary and there will be many many players trying to provide the Bridge between Currency and bitcoins.

That (micro) payment system will allow many more applications than just payment of websites.

There is a very good article by Marc Andreessen on Bitcoin. I had posted it here before. http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/why-bitcoin-matters/

Anand Srivastava said...

An article comparing Bitcoin with World Wide Web. He has likened the price of bitcoin to the price of Domain Names. That is a bit of exaggeration. It is more important than that, as a costly bitcoin is important to the security of the Network as it incentivizes the miners to put computing resources. Large computing resources makes it difficult for some entity from taking over the Bitcoin Network. But its not as important as people think here.

http://www.wired.com/2015/01/price-bitcoin-doesnt-matter-right-now/

KnallGold said...

SNB just announced the end of the 1.20 floor to euro. IR lowered to minus 0.75%.

Bye-bye dirty float.

http://www.snb.ch/de/mmr/reference/pre_20150115/source/pre_20150115.de.pdf

Unknown said...

I was reading Flow Addendum. To me it said that he who has the gold gets cheap oil. If that's the case (and I'm not sure that I'm even on the same planet with the meaning of that post), would the invasion of Iraq in '03 signify that we "US" do not have as much gold as the public thinks we do?

Jeff said...

Some other things that never go to zero, because they never reach a value that high (they only exist as subsidized money sinks): nuclear reactors, ethanol plants, biodiesel plants, gigawatt electric battery factories, hydrogen car factories, windfarms, solar panel factories.

Other things never get that far: fission reactors, OTEC.

Bitcoin?? YMMV





KnallGold said...

"The currency strengthened at least 25 percent against all of its 16 major peers as the SNB removed the 1.20 per euro limit...The franc climbed 30 percent to 92 centimes per euro at 9:53 a.m. London time, according to data compiled by Bloomberg, after touching 85.17 centimes, the strongest level on record. It rose 26 percent to 81 centimes per dollar. .."

I've seen Gold prices of 26000sFr. today, yesterday it was 40'000! Holy gosh what volatilities can occur when imbalances are released all of a sudden. The currency fire continues.

Cult of Fire -Vltava (Smetana's Moldau for Heavy-Metal fans...)

Edwardo said...

Anand,

The point is that Bitcoin -the currency- is going to be taxed. That is the primary purpose of regulation, to take a cut.

Phat Repat said...

Have to admit, they're doing a pretty good job of throwing us off with these swings in the paper price. Or has the expectation of lower prices been altered? Perhaps the death throes of the old, finally? Everything crossed...

Anand Srivastava said...

Edwardo:

Yes any profits in Bitcoins will be taxed. Agreed. I am not thinking about its illegal uses either. It has a lot of legal uses, but they have not be legally defined yet. That is the uncertainty problem.

Tommy2Tone said...

Regarding the SNB move, I like this quote. Reminds me of something I read once ;)
"
ALEXANDRE BARADEZ, CHIEF MARKET ANALYST AT IG FRANCE

"This is extremely violent and totally unexpected, the central bank didn't prepare the market for it. It's sparking panic across all asset classes."

Pat said...

Can't start a fire without a spark, this guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.

Brady said...

talk about a currency fire & a sudden surprise by a central bank.

where have we read about this before? :)

Anonymous said...

@Anand

TL;DR

Will return to celebrate when 1 BTC = $0

ein anderer said...

@jim,
+10!

KnallGold said...

Phat Repat: you mean "both Gold and $ going up at the same time"?

I thought POG would go up starting new year, it was just a gut feeling of mostly contrarian nature. Don't think a new Goldbull has started (to initiate more flow), it must be a technically logic thing, as what we had today: 1.20 pulled, sFr. rises, sFr-POG dives, euro falls, $ falls. What does $-POG do in the end?

Tommy2Tone said...

Seems apropos:

Date: Mon Nov 03 1997 07:31
Reify ( @ANOTHER ) ID#413109:
Soooo, I'm wondering, over what period of time are your predictions?
Where do you get information on about, Big Trader?

Reify,
The actual buying of gold ( no other metals ) by huge players is not a prediction, it is ongoing. In 1997 it exploded! The price of the metal in currency terms will be made for all to see as it moves quickly upward for a very short period of time ( 30 days ) . After that only black market traders and third world noones will understand it's price! When is this going to happen? I have no idea. Is there anything to look for that will tell us when the problems have started? At first the US$ and gold will go up together against all other assets!

Big Trader is ( was ) from HK and is in the business.


H/t Poopy

Phat Repat said...

KnallGold

From a contrarian perspective I get that; and a few days does not a trend make. However, I want to make sure the narrative or expectations hasn't changed; and since there's no article for that... :-)

At first the US$ and gold will go up together against all other assets!

Have you looked at any long term charts. Up, down, up, down, all throughout the rise of the $POG. Where's the predictive nature in that? And if you look from 2008 to 2011, the 'strong, rise in $POG, the USD mostly fell. Now, perhaps, just perhaps, this time is IT (given USD is rising now and hopefully $POG will go with it). THAT would be nice to see. But since that statement was made in 1997, the Deity only knows. ;-)

queckshep said...

The best part about the SNB move is that Lagarde was surprised she wasn't contacted first by the head of the SNB.

http://player.theplatform.com/p/gZWlPC/cnbc_global?playertype=synd&byGuid=3000346755&size=530_298#

So long IMF.

Xcsler said...

@poopyjim @ein anderer
Bitcoins share many of the same properties with gold that make it a form of money. Why wouldn't you hedge your bets and even consider buying some just in case? Are you 100% certain that it will fail? Sometimes you just have to take a chance and trust the opinions of others especially when they come from people in your own community (@anand).

Disclosure: Long Au, long BTC

queckshep said...

@Xcsler
Bitcoins do share some properties...but not enough. I heard once that before something is used as money it has to have value in the first place. How about the 30+ other cryptocurrencies? There's no limit to create just another cryptocurrency that share properties with gold. I'm not sure if you can 'create' another 30+ physical gold variations :-)

Unknown said...

I see bitcoin as the worst of two worlds.
It neither has intrinsic value nor has government support.
At least they are trying to prop up paper money.
The future of gold is certain. An ounce of gold will in a hundred years be an ounce of gold...of two half ounces. Im sure you know what I mean. But the future of bitcoin is purely speculative as technically the systems could be shut down and all the bit coins would in a blink cease to exist.
What bitcoin has going for it right now is 1) some level of anonymity and 2) capped growth in quantity. Both those things you have with gold plus the certainty that gold will be gold.

t au said...

Xcsler

Respectfully, the last time I looked, I did not see Bitcoin listed in the periodic table.

I do not see Bitcoin as a SOV.

ein anderer said...

Xcsler,
BC has nothing in common with gold: It’s a man made invention only, a mousy, supine, dicey chimera, so ephemeral that it will not live even to see the death of this dollar.
Virtual currencies are like company owned cafeteria chips: Nobody really cares, neither of their birth nor of their death. Only some poor nerds on the wrong track.
Nothing to see here. Please move.

gull_mann said...

I am starting to feel like the recent SNB decision could be the big one. Hang tight. Going to get messy.

The Jackalope said...

9.5 tons added to GLD today.

vizeet srivastava said...

A cryptocurrency can only do well in FG when there is clean float. It doesn't matter if Bitcoin will survive or not but crypto-currency will survive.
Indian Central Bank Governor on Virtual Currency:
"Down the line, we will be moving towards a cashless society. Believe that virtual currencies will be much safer and get better in future. There are security issues in Bitcoin"
I think Countries will adopt cryptocurrencies in their monetary system and it will mostly replace master/visa cards. Most like Master/Visa monopoly won't survive in FG and there will come CryptoCurrency. There are problems with Bitcoin so I think it will be probably something brought by Central Banks to facilitate online transactions and regulations. There will be probably more than one crypto-currency but I think they will be well regulated by Central Banks.
So Bitcoin protocol probably has lot of future. But it doesn't matter much in FG discussion. So I would stay away from discussing it here.

Anand Srivastava said...

ein anderer:

Virtual currencies are like company owned cafeteria chips

This would be news for Crypto Currency proponents. They think that nobody owns them, and that is why they are using it.

Seriously, I don't understand why people here think that virtual world is any less real. Do you expect Google or Facebook stocks to go zero, just because they make apps in the virtual world. Why would bitcoin go to zero? Just because it is a virtual currency, the govt has to clamp on it? Why would it do so, when Bitcoin is more easily trackable than gold, and no one thinks they will ban Gold? Just because you think its easier to ban. Are you sure it is easier to ban? Why haven't they been able to ban Wikileaks, or piratebay. They have tried a lot don't you think. They still exist. You only think of bitcoins as a means of evading taxes :-). There are so many other ways to avoid taxes, why single out bitcoins. And you cannot really avoid taxes with bitcoin much, as you need to sell them through an exchange where you will have to pay taxes.

The problem here is that most of the people here do not understand technology. You guys are thinking in absolute terms. The real world has millions of shades of grey. Gold is just one of the Store of Values, even if it is the best. Post freegold, the Mona Lisa will not become worthless.

I don't think people here think that we will get into a Mad Max type of world, and there will be no internet at all. Then why do you think that the internet will go dark only for bitcoin.

Bitcoin the network has a lot of good uses. There are a lot of investors going into it for those uses. Those investors have not even bought a single bitcoin. Eg Marc Andreessen. bitcoin is just an application of Bitcoin the network. Don't think of it just as a currency.

And when there are enough people investing into something, there will always be speculators. There are also people that are just waiting for the legal framework to be ready to take a larger plunge into it.

We are not fearing regulation, we are waiting for it to happen. I have invested a tiny bit on bitcoins and have lost most of it :-). It was a good learning experience. Todays message from Marc on Twitter.

"On days like today I'm happy I only invest in powerful new ideas like Bitcoin, not lunatic fringe assets like the Swiss franc and the Euro."

Unknown said...

Anand. You probably don't even notice it yourself but you are being a speculator. Not saying there is something wrong with it just that your view of bit coin is pretty much like investing in a small cap. It could have tremendous potential and deliver something that is used around the world. But gold, especially saving in physical unencumbered, is at the other end of the spectrum.
I have speculative shares myself. And some here would argue that my silver holding is speculative. The point is though that you can't really start a good discussion on something that completely lacks intrinsic value at a site where the main interest is the opposite. On top of that the theme of this site is that gold will outshine all other asset classes. So for the FG believers you are promoting something that is sub-par. Just sayin....hope no offence.

Anand Srivastava said...

PeaknikMicki:

Buying bitcoin is Speculation. I am not denying that. To mine the bitcoins I have, I invested lots more in the miner, than I would have if I had bought the bitcoins. I am perfectly ok with losing that amount. Actually if I had bought the bitcoins when I bought the miner, I would have made a tidy sum.

My real wealth is in Gold.

I am not sure what do you mean with Intrinsic Value. Do you mean to say that Internet has no intrinsic value, or that World Wide Web has no intrinsic value. Bitcoin is a network, and I am not sure how you can say that it has no intrinsic value.

I am only trying to counter some misconceptions here. I am not even promoting it. I can't tell others to buy bitcoins, when I don't buy them :-). I am not really a speculator at heart. Its an interesting technology. I have invested as a miner, I didn't buy the bitcoins, I mined them. Its not even easy to buy and sell bitcoins in India.

queckshep said...

@anand

Yes, the technology itself is interesting. But trust is a huge issue when it comes to money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg

"Seriously, I don't understand why people here think that virtual world is any less real."....for the same reasons sweaty, steamy sex is more real than using your left hand to polish your can and your right hand to adjust the volume ;-) See if something is real you don't need to convince people it is, it just is.

"The problem here is that most of the people here do not understand technology" .... That's one of the reasons why it's not feasable, even your grandma should be able to use it.

"I don't think people here think that we will get into a Mad Max type of world, and there will be no internet at all."....I'm not sure if people in Ukraine think the same right now.

Yes you can say that BTC is limited and 'difficult to mine' but then again what is difficulty? Can you really compare human sweat and labor with computer labor? People tend to value the former more.

tEON said...

@anand srivastava

Do you expect Google or Facebook stocks to go zero

I think the focus should be on the word expect not the word zero. Until you can imagine that FB stock is capable of devaluing to zero, and Gold is incapable - you are stuck with your speculative beliefs. Faith in Bitcoin is not thinking outside the box, an inability to accept its vast limitations is.

You may be right about the eventual advent of Crypto Currencies, but why gamble on when (now or in, ex, 75 years) and one CC dominating over another? You seem to realize it is gambling but lack the imagination to accept how big of a gamble, especially in a Forum that advocates saving first and foremost. While you seem to wish to promote the positive arguments for BTC (or CCs) - it's largely irrelevant here.

Cheers,

J said...

Part I

"BC has nothing in common with gold: It’s a man made invention only"

Bitcoin is a distributed ledger, similar to gold. Anyone can own space on the ledger. It's divisible, fungible, and not controlled by a single entity. The supply is more strict than gold and new mining technology will not bring more usable supply to the table.

So it shares all of the properties of gold that make it a great SoV / money. An argument can be made that it's not physical..but being physical brings disadvantages. Gold does not have the ability to be transported worldwide in seconds and it can only be one place at one time. You cannot back it up either. You also cannot prove ownership without a third party or by giving up your hiding place.

So, I would say they are very similar but bitcoin has some advantages.

"Hahahahahahahahahahahaha WOW. I knew this day would come. Today is a great day! Will be even better when it hits zero. The wailing of the tards will be epic and schadenfreude will be off the charts."

These comments are funny. It's been proclaimed at least 10 times in the past that bitcoin has died. Each and every time it hasn't. Bitcoin is opensource software. Anyone can innovate upon it and build out its infrastructure. "Death" is usually distribution of the units, the clearing out of weak infrastructure, and a time to make it more robust. Code doesn't die and as long as participants are on the network then it is useful and space on the ledger will always command a price.

Daily transactions are still rising https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

But I guess it's only fun to focus on the price.

J said...

Part II

I first discovered bitcoin on this blog. It grabbed my attention but I could not get myself to wire money to a Magic the Gathering Card exchange. I didn’t. Not too long afterwards bitcoin “died”
I rediscovered it again and found it hadn’t died, it was far from dead, it was growing. I found that there were now on-ramps into bitcoin that were trustworthy. BItcoin companies were now receiving VC funding by top tier funds. But bitcoin was dead..I wrapped my head around the technology and its implications. What it means when people can transfer value without permission, when people can make payments without giving access to your credit or personal details. Transfers become push instead of pull. No banking hours, no delays, nobody blocking transactions when I book airfare from a country people decide is risky. I’m in.

The value shot up 10x quickly and then “died”. Everyone laughed..bitcoin is dead! The venture capitalists didn’t think so and kept pouring money in. Individuals around the world didn’t think so and continued to innovate upon it building features such as multi-sig which allows escrow, multi-user approval, or smart transfers to take place. I didn’t think so and grew my holdings.
Time passed and people forgot that it “died”. Then.. OMG Silk Road got seized and Bitcoin “died” again..but it didn’t and it shot up another 10x until.. it died yet again. But it was still here, until now, where it is seemingly being proclaimed that yet again..bitcoin is dead.

People fear the unknown. I get it. But being gold advocates and rooting for the destruction of a network that allows the entire world to transact upon it, or store value on it, without requiring the permission of a middleman, seems strange to me.
Anyway – I’m a fan of gold and bitcoin. They both have their places.

tEON said...

@J

But being gold advocates and rooting for the destruction of a network that allows the entire world to transact upon it

The entire world, eh? even those 6+ billion without the Internet. I guess they don't count.

No point in rehashing those same BTC vs. Gold arguments, yet again.

J said...

@tEON,
Allows..not grants the ability to.

BItcoin via SMS.

JJ said...

If there was no expectation of BC going anywhere, just preserving wealth, how many % of world population would prefer BC as a SoV over gold?

If there was no expectation of gold going anywhere, just preserving wealth, how many % of world population would prefer gold as a SoV over BC?

Is BC suitable to save in for my pension? Is gold?

If a third world nobody wants to show off at a wedding, does he/she put on a collar of USB-sticks or gold?

BC is imo suited for speculation and when putting aside all speculation, gold is still standing.

Unknown said...

@J
While BC technology may be revolutionary and allow for efficient, discreet transactions....it is not IMHO and will never be a SoV. Use it to transact....but don't expect it to maintain your wealth over a period of years any more than paper forms of "wealth"....

Steve said...

Am I having a bitcoin discussion deja-vu here, thought we left that behind us some time ago. Please....

Phat Repat said...

Really... Unless BTC has been included in FG theory it's no different than speaking of paper speculations; which as I recall wasn't warmly received either. And, in hindsight, for the right reasons.

BustinStones said...

Never would have guessed that Bitcoin would have a football bowl game named after it. It has come a long way.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/26/apparently-the-bitcoin-bowl-is-a-real-thing-thats-happening-right-now/

I almost pulled the trigger on 150 bitcoins @ 9 bucks awhile back. I bought a Gold Eagle instead.

vizeet srivastava said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
vizeet srivastava said...

I am using CryptoCurrency not Bitcoin to not specically talk about bitcoin. There are several problems with Bitcoin
1. Mining is distrbuted between few pools
2. There are 100s of CrytoCurrencies.
Only crypto-currencies that are recognized by CBs will have wider use and others will remain just for gaming/speculation/hidden market.
Same is true with hard metals. CBs/giants recognize gold as ultimate SoV and not silver so here we talk about gold as ultimate beneficiary.
If CBs regulate CrytoCurrency it will control its mining. This is one reason why Bitcoin will not probably succeed in long term. CBs or Govt will also control mining of gold in FG.
"Bitcoin protocol" which is the base technology solves essential transaction problem called "byzantine generals problem". Essential because without it we need third party to manage transaction. That is the reason there are master/visa card. We are in dirty float so governments need few companies to control monetary transactions. In clean float the market will be set free so master/visa/swift cards should not control monetary transactions. That is the reason crypto-currency will ultimately succeed in FG.
Cryto-currency will be Medium of Exchange. So gold as SoV, Fiat currency as UoA and Cryto-currency as MoE.
Doesn't it make a good future currency model?

Anonymous said...

You can name football games, races, royal palaces, stars, galaxies, or even the universe after bitcoin but it won't matter because you can't polish a turd.

Ken_C said...

Actually you can polish a turd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

queckshep said...

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1421424060.php
Did anyone read this article yet? Here's the intro:
" have had a theory about markets for as long as I have watched gold. The theory is everything is about gold. Well, maybe not everything but close enough. Which is why the move by the SNB had me look at the charts. And those charts tell me a story that is very different from the official one. Now please understand I have zero proof outside of the charts, so this is speculation on my part but it is reasoned speculation as you will see.

I believe the SNB was massively short gold and dropped the peg to cover their short. Here is why I believe it.

On September 6, 2011 The SNB instituted a peg to stop the Franc from appreciating against the Euro. On that day the gold price topped. If you believe gold is a commodity and not a currency, stop reading. If you do believe gold is a currency this is noteworthy."

I was wondering if the SNB move yesterday would make sense from a FG perspective and concluded that in fact it would.

What do you guys think about this?

Phat Repat said...

Well, it depends...

Is the FG narrative still holding the POG will fall to unimaginable levels prior to the market breaking? Or has that been altered now to the POG will rise with the USD (even though that has been weakly correlated given prior evidence)?

Roacheforque said...

queck / phat,
It is an interesting corelation. Paper gold has risen significantly since the SNB move (along with other drama) but does it imply causation?
I would offer also, that for as long as paper prices physical, the paper price (up or down) does not necessarily = the "rise" in gold which A spoke of (concurrent with $). I saw gold and the dollar rising together many months ago as $ began its FX rise and gold began it's rise in demand Eastward.
Since paper price is arbitrary, I see a rise in demand as much more significant than a rise in paper price.
Just my interpretation - could be wrong.

queckshep said...

I was thinking what would happen to the EUR/CHF peg if the ECB announces the opposite what the market is expecting right now...full blown Q.E. What if Draghi continues to make empty promises like he's doing since 2012?

Reading the article I was wondering if the BIS used the SNB as a proxy in 2011. And if so to what end and what mechanics could be involved?

Given the volatility and lurking Eurozone dangers would it make sense for the BIS to pull the plug before $H.I., especially now that they're all short EUR and long USD? Could this be the gasoline that speeds up the burning?

Does this make any sense or am I being delusional/wrong?

fftastic said...

Now there is another narrative about the dropped PEG and it goes like this:
The transition towards FG has started with a bang!

Keep in mind it's a financial world war out there and it's a war between FIAT and GOLD, respectivly their proponents.

SNB Vice President Thomas Jordan founded the spectacular step with the growing divergence in the international "currency policies": The US Federal Reserve (Fed) wants to raise interest rates and thus indicate that the dollar again has a value. The ECB, however, wants to flood the markets massively to devalue the euro. The SNB has been crushed in between the US and the ECB's dilemma: on the outlook that the euro continues to get cheaper, the SNB would have been forced to buy more Euros, to maintain the minimum exchange rate (Peg). That would have lifted the roof of the SNB's FX risk.
Were the euro-zone really to disintegrate, the Swiss would have been sitting on a mountain of worthless paper. Therefore, it was decided: "Better a terrible end than unending terror."

So the SNB's announcement (and I believe in agreement with the Bundesbank, Russia and China) to leave the PEG was delayed after the swiss gold initiative and not communicated to the IMF and the US knowing that
a) it would kill a lot of confidence in unbacked currencies
b) hit and weaken the US entirely unexpected
c) it would create the need for bailouts and QE in the US (again) thus diminishing the divergence of international currency policies
d) render the US influenced IMF irrelevant as an arbiter and deciding factor
e) give the FG proponents an entirely different standing in Davos.

Conclusion:

Now we are waiting for Davos to happen and the world's undecided statesmen have a fresh memory of what can happen with a FIAT currency out of control. If only there was a savior? Wait, we actually have sth to rely on: GOLD! Let's free gold from its shackles...



Bright aurum said...

Little late to the discussion. Sorry about that. Fascinating course of events right now. Lot of clearing houses in a world of pain. Margin calls gone haywire. Derivative ripples across the pond. POG shorts squeezed perhaps. Once again GLD plays will be the key. 9.5t increase is nothing.
POOil probably bottomed. USDX - nothing but blue skies above then Willie the Coyote moment.
I wish you all health, love, good luck and success for 2015.
And certainly not fire in any personal perspective.
P.S.
My baby son torched one room and smocked the entire house so for me 2014 was the year of the fire and it was bad.
Godspeed!

J said...

@poopyjim

Maybe bitcoin won't work well as a SoV, I obviously don't know what it's future holds. But a turd? Btc has solved the issue of being able to transfer property, digitally. It has huge ramifications. Calling it a "turd" is either complete ignorance at best or incompetence.

You may hate it as a currency for some unknown reason but it's value as a currency is linked to it's ability to transfer digital property, which spills over to the physical realm (think contracts, titles, notes, smart insurance, wills, etc)I'm sure people hated TCP/IP, SMTP, HTTP as well..I have no idea why though. I dislike people taking a cut or blocking my transactions..most people should too.

Anonymous said...

"You jutht DONT underthtsand the technawogy! Finawwy, buttcoin fwees us fwom fees and gubermint!!!!" ::spittle flies everywhere::

Bright aurum said...

The ole IM$ is like a rusty cement truck that stopped working and all the cement dried in it. That raises the question - How do you clean such a stifled and constipated cement truck ?

The Jackalope said...

+13.74 tons

Michael dV said...

Queck...why would a central bank be so short gold? They don't need to 'make more money' and we know from the CBGA that they agreed to stop selling. Nothing in that concept fits with FG that I can see. The original peg seemed a legit effort to prevent speculation in the SFranc. That is a FG concept. As for why end it now, perhaps a pretransition, free floating currency kind of thingy.
Bitcoin (actually any crypto-currency bores me. It might just be another MoE but so what? It can be smuggled easily?
I think easily transportable MoE are coming. I have a credit card I can use anywhere and I suppose if I could remember my CC details I could pay a bill in China by calling the vendor, giving them my CC details and except for the burden of having to remember 20 digits, my first car and the street I grew up on, it is as easy as Bitcoin.
Remember the promise of video phones. They were tried but never took off. Then we got Skype on computers. By the time we got Skype on phones it never occurred to anyone to do a story "Hey we finally got video phones". I suspect cryptocurrencies will happen the same way. We'll get something like them and no one will even think to say...'Hey, we finally got bitcoin'.
The reason no one here is taking the Bitcoin bait is ONE: we don't care, we did that 2 years ago...boring...TWO: it is just another medium of exchange. Today people actually collect the stuff. In the future we don't think it will create nearly the excitement it does today.

ein anderer said...

@anand:
They think that nobody owns them, and that is why they are using it.
That’s why they can be stolen so easily in such huge amounts, as they were in the past, several times ;)

ein anderer said...

Michael,
a good one ;)

ein anderer said...

@Xcsler,

Why wouldn't you hedge your bets and even consider buying some just in case?

Which bets? And honestly: What is a hedge?

That’s not a rhetorical question. I have never thought about hedging. I can’t even define what those hedgers are doing.

Tell you what: I was on the edge (not hedge) for slipping into this kind of »business«. Some are calling it »earning money with money«. But then I’ve finally found this blog, and here you are:

No hedging things here, no bets, nothing like this. Only owning. Owning and saving and doing some honest work to make one’s living. And understanding (a bit) what is really going on out there.

Since then, I must admit, I became very, very one sided. This financial world, with all this juggling of numbers and figures—I don’t care a fig anymore.

So call me a brainwashed cult member. But I sleep well!

Indenture said...

Savings, get you some.
And get a good night sleep.

vizeet srivastava said...

Bitcoin has an issue that it is limited in circulation so it is deflationary like gold but in easy of use it is similar to fiat. So CBs will never like it. It will be instrument of speculation with limited use. It is tiffins delimma all over again.

vizeet srivastava said...

Oh not tiffins dilemma. The dilemma people faced in gold standard.

KnallGold said...

The monetary logic: the SNB weakened the sFr. with the peg, POG in sFr. rose accordingly. With the peg removed, the sFr. got strong again and accordingly, its POG fell. Shades of Goldstandard, nothing more.

$ in sFr. got weaker, $POG rose, euro weakened and euro POG advanced. The euro is clearly a much bigger currency, so net strengthened the $. Quite some upward pressure on POG which not even a stronger $ can compensate.

Somehow the dollar things ($,$POG,bonds,Dow) are fatefully isolated, pressured up, (cornered?). Which one will break first? I would have thought bonds (after SM?), maybe the projected rate increase will be more a must than choice.

So QE had to be ended to keep credibility as the fed always said they won't raise rates before QE ended. But they also said to be patient: of course they won't raise until they HAVE to!

Should the $ come under pressure, going to die, the fed WILL raise rates, that is always done. The fire on the periphery being like the fuse, the mountain of black powder lies elsewhere...

queckshep said...

@Michael
"As for why end it now, perhaps a pretransition, free floating currency kind of thingy."...My thought also but why now and not last week or 2 weeks ago? 1 week before the ECB should be announcing Q.E. seems like an ideal time to push the speculators on the wrong side of the trade.
"why would a central bank be so short gold?"...I wasn't thinking about them shorting gold. More in the way of could it be that somehow the BIS used the SNB as a proxy? Say to handle the FOG in a way that doesn't have to show up on import manifests and divert it to various refineries. China for example has been steadily accumulating and was very busy during that period setting up trading hubs.

tEON said...

Though there are many moving parts to this FG theory, it seems there should be a way to quantify or identify certain indicators/events that would herald the onset of FG.

FoFoA: But one thing all surprises, by definition, have in common is that you can't see them coming.

I suspect that most will see FG in the same out-of-the-blue manner as most who didn't anticipate the Swiss National Bank de-pegging the franc from the Euro. Perhaps a small group somewhere saw the de-pegging as inevitable, but were also unable to give a specific date.

Phat Repat said...

Someone always knows; the question is, are you part of that club? And as George Carlin rightly stated, you ain't (okay, maybe you are but I'm not).

It's no different than the concept of giants. A rather exclusive club that we don't have privy or insight into and can only glean the workings of by swag or purposely leaked information (A, FOA, FOFOA? ;-)

KnallGold said...

The best way to hide something is often to place it for all to see. The peg was announced as temporary from the beginning, then came the Dirty Float post by FOFOA:

"..With built-in (structural) imbalances, currency devaluations when they happen are generally larger and more disruptive than the crisis that caused them. A better, more stable system would be clean floating exchange rates where imbalances are corrected gradually through the exchange rate.."

The euro is clean since the beginning, Russia liberated the Ruble last year, raised instead rates, the sFr. peg came first into question during the Swiss Gold vote, many said that it will end some time anyway, then the SNB began to introduce negative IR's, signaling already the shift - and now liberated the sFr..

You know what? I see a continuity here. Of course the day it happens is a surprise but then, is it really?

Finally Gold will also be liberated, now THAT will surprise-or not? From Dirty Float:

"...Enjoy the calm while it lasts, because Freegold is unfolding right before our very eyes, if you just know where to look!"

Certainly Gartman will again lament that he wasn't given advance notice (so he could trade ahead). Not that we could give him a specific date (but that's why we are labeled Gold jerks).

You can scream at the herd that they will just fall off a cliff, they will still fall because the herd is always right. And they will still be right when they have fallen as their primary motive is not to be singled out. Together at the bottom, licking wounds, but primarily together *sigh*.

Ending the peg a week before the QECB meets, was, somehow, the most obvious timing, kinda funny. Just read that the fed wasn't given notice either. Just the Swiss gov. knew a bit ahead.

Apropos liberation of Gold, only old timers remember this story: early 1999, a rumour made the rounds that the ECB wants to free Gold, source was a Peruvian central banker.

It pointed to June and was therefore called "June Rumour", this was quite something at the time!

Actually a second leak for FreeGold. June though saw new lows after the BOE sold into Browns bottom. But then, 26. Sept. 1666 proved to be a spectacular surprise(!) with the announcement of the WAG.

FOA commented then that they put us on the road, the road to 30'000.

Psychic Ills - I'll Follow You Through the Floor

Bright aurum said...

@KnallGold
You wrote: "Which one will break first? I would have thought bonds (after SM?), maybe the projected rate increase will be more a must than choice."
It will be the SM first of course. It stays afloat only due to the falling POOil. IMO TPTB will sacrifice it long before anyting happens to their beloved bond market. Then we will see weather contagion spreds to other world markets and which currencies benefit. If, this time, the U$D tanks as expected no raising of interest rates can save the $ IMS

Lisa said...

Queckshep.

Your comments made me remember this conversation. Not sure if it means what you think, but it is interesting

MK: One other item you might clarify for me is "Who is really behind BIS?
ANOTHER: Perhaps, "who control them"?
MK: The Swiss?
ANOTHER: Yes.
MK: The eurocentral banks?
ANOTHER: Yes.
MK: Who does BIS really represent?
ANOTHER: "old world, gold economy, as viewed thru modern eyes" or " way to move from US$ without war".

From MARCH 10, 2010 post "The Gold Man..."



queckshep said...

Lisa,
You seem to be gifted as a mind reader :-)
Thank you for pointing me to that discussion.

It made me laugh quite a bit. ANOTHER sure had a cryptic way to convey his message.

M said...

The question is why did the Swiss cut the peg ? Central bankers don't seem to be happy unless they are throwing good money after bad. How can the Swiss be part of the club if they aren't throwing good money after bad ?

I think maybe they stopped this peg to gear up for U.S dollar support. Watch the Swiss CB balance sheet go Belgium in the coming months. Everyone can starve, just not the Americans.

Michael dV said...

M
seriouly doubt it...they are just going cold turkey...like so many others...getting ready for what's coming..hopefully.

Dante_Eu said...

BitCoin pundits will be striped butt naked, all the way up to 1.000.000 US$ per Bit.

Continuing with Youtube theme, what do you get when you combine one of the greatest TV-series ever made, with (undoubtedly) greatest song ever made?

Well, you get pure awesomeness:

"Chemistry is the study of matter,
but I prefer to see it as the study of change.
It is growth, then decay, then transformation!"


Could be said about most other things also. Except one. :-)

KnallGold said...

@Bright aurum: agree. Yeah raising rates won't save the $IMS, but it will be done anyway when the avalanche hits, out of desperation. Just to postpone the loss of confidence a couple of months (or days? who knows how quick this will proceed).

"Everyone can starve, just not the Americans"-really? When the bloodsucker runs out of blood!?

Getting ready for what's coming sounds like the best summary.

And further continuity here, with the Czech Koruna, then Denmark "..according to Danske, the bank is advising clients to gird for rate cuts into unprecedented negative territory".

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-16/czech-currency-cap-questioned-as-premier-defends-central-bank.html?cmpid=yhoo

I'm wondering how the $ will do in a free exchange system...

If the stars had anything to say, last night I saw a very bright meteor crossing the sky, quite spectacular, seen this only once before. It burned out in atmosphere...

queckshep said...

It makes one wonder if that's the reason the US seems so eager to push their various trade agreements around the globe. They know it's inevitable and want to rebuild the economy as fast as possible post $IMS

Lisa said...

Queckshep - Tweets from this morning between Arie L'or and FOFOA.

Arie L'or (@Trident_one)
1/18/15, 3:22 AM
Was money flowing the wrong direction, when Swiss made their pegg 1-9-2011 to the €. The same day the POG made ATH $ 1.920
Coincidental ?

@FOFOA999:
Yes, it is coincidental. Correlation does not mean causation. Just because the parabolic rise in the franc coincided with…

@FOFOA999: …the spike in paper gold, it is foolish to think that the franc caused the spike in gold

.@FOFOA999: It is equally foolish to think that the SNB capping a parabolic problem at the top caused gold to stop rising.

@FOFOA999: Anyway, the SNB peg was to the euro, not the dollar, and the €POG didn't make its ATH until a whole year later

@Trident_one:Seen from the angle of managing "The Flow of Value" it could very well fit the (BIS) picture. Graphs of Koos seems to suggest it

queckshep said...

Thanks Lisa (smile)
Yet another AHA moment.
FOFOA once wrote that his attention span is very short. Usually that's also the case for me, but this topic is truly fascinating and highly addictive.

I learned more monetary history reading this blog than all my previous years of education combined. What surprised me the most that the Euro was created as a viable replacement.
One part of the concept was the abolition of border controls. The BeNeLUx treaty was signed in 1958 (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg) ---> The Schengen treaty in 1985 (BeNeLUx, France, Germany) ---> Maastricht treaty in 1992
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty#Ratification
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

It made me so curious that I plan to visit the chairman of the B.I.S. during July 1997-February 1999.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfons_Verplaetse

He was certainly in a good position to know the details (EURO concept) and he lives only 10km away.

Michael dV said...

queckshep
Please report back. He will not likely call anything Freegold but he may have some insights as to the attitude about gold in general. I'd ask why the ECB still holds gold and why they signed the CBGA...general kinds of stuff he might respond to.
Also...did he know our candidate for Another... Guy d Rothschild...just curious.

Michael dV said...

queckshep
interesting take on the treaties. I just assumed it was more of the same wrt offshoring (like NAFTA etc). Those treaties allowed US companies to use cheaper labor but still stay alive as US companies. I do suppose a treaty could just be an agreement to trade in a favorable way.

Michael dV said...

DE
cool video, WW at his 'finest'.

M said...

Russian economist Mikhail Khazine's comments on gold:

Russia and China cannot stop these manipulations, because the price of paper gold is determined on the speculative dollar markets. They can’t provide 'leverage' that would be comparable to that of major U.S. banks that have access to an unlimited issuing resource. The only thing they can do is increase the gap between the price of 'paper' and 'physical' gold by constantly buying the latter on the world markets.

Of course, this increases the instability in the global gold market and creates potential losses for the main 'gold dealers' who work with the Federal Reserve on leasing programs, but the degree of imbalances has not reached a critical value yet. It seems to me that the sharp rise in gold prices will start after the burst of the next 'bubble' in the US stock market.

Anand Srivastava said...

tEON:
I understand that in the long long term only Gold will survive.

MdV I agree with you.

I guess we should not talk about Bitcoin here. I just think it maybe the future XAUUSD replacement.

Anonymous said...

Why do you need a XAUUSD in the future? If you think you need XAUUSD, it means you do not understand the concept of freegold.

KnallGold said...

"..With such leverage a 5 percent move against the position wipes out all the value, yet the trades were seen as relatively low-risk by models used by financial institutions because volatility of the franc was reduced by the SNB's cap, he said. .."

Still going with these models? You can't calculate highly complex things like economy, psychology, climate etc.. My former boss used to say "don't play with models!"...

A popular mathematician spoke wise words: "how do you recognize a bad mathematician? He tries to calculate as exact as possible."

Funny thing that a fund called "Everest" went broke, oh those paper mountains... when you start to believe the illusion, you become delusional.

If they are being told to watch out for black swans, they don't "see" the white ones anymore. The matrix self-defeats...

Anand Srivastava said...

ReferencePointGold:

Why do you need a XAUUSD in the future?

Why do you need God?
It is a mostly useless concept. But people feel happy about it. There will be people that will be looking for things that feel comfortable.

Anonymous said...

Anand,
Once we reach stasis and equilibrium, the currency wont fluctuate in value as are currently used to seeing. May be a few cents either way but not enough to affect most. CB in such a time will not need to do much. No forward guidance needed no arse backward policies to implement.

Pat said...

Thank heavens ( no thank FOFOA ) for the FG lens. To me it is clear we are past "slow history" and the tectonic plates are grinding and shifting at a much faster rate, and conflagrations popping up around the globe. Year of the Fire indeed. We watch, we wait, but methinks the waiting is no longer the hardest part Mr. Petty. Rewatching old movies now, ' The Paper Chase" followed by Fahrenheit 451" seemed appropriate.
Should be a very interesting week capped off by Drahgi, does he or doesn't he? Hmmm

Jeff said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29

Edwardo said...

Don't play with models?

Phat Repat said...

What will the ECB do? Hmmm... The answer should be obvious given the intended framework of the Euro and what has been posited on this blog. ;-)

KnallGold said...

- Petro euro?

"..If exchange transactions are settled in energy the unit of account can be anything you like. But, it would be open to Iran and any other country let’s say Russia to discuss with the EU that transactions might be priced and settled in Euros if U.S. legislators prove to be unreasonable in ongoing negotiations.

Let’s with current troubles that Euro is facing we think of that as a Petro Euro. .."

http://www.tehrantimes.com/oped/121135-new-dates-for-iran-oil-conference-in-london-

- https://twitter.com/freegolds

DP @darenpa72 · 3h 3 hours ago

For months, years, Anglo-American pundits have called for the stupid ECB to get with the QE program. Now they might do QE, they're stupid.

KnallGold said...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nothing-decided-yet-qe-says-175945327.html

The Doors - Light my Fire . When RJP or Dante fail to post the obvious theme I'm gonna take up the slack...

meo fio said...

BIS seems not happy about ECB QE

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11358316/Central-bank-prophet-fears-QE-warfare-pushing-world-financial-system-out-of-control.html

The Jackalope said...

11 more tons today. How much more until this starts putting coat check into question?

Michael dV said...

Stu
122 tonnes

JC said...

Hi Stu,

Doing some pot watching?
When looking through the freegold lens one sees coat check as the most plausible explanation of GLD drain. Just as coat check is not called into question, but instead explained by, the filling of GLD with 1300T from 2004 to 2012. The recent 40T addition or indeed another possible 250T can still be viewed with the freegold lens without affecting coat check plausibility. Let us remember that the bullion banks have many thousands of Tonnes with GLD simply being a visible aspect of that total which has been noticed and plausibly then hidden in 2014 by keeping the pot neat 800T. Pot watching will not affect coat check and certainly will not get you that crack in the freegold lens you seek. Your approach has been too narrow and appears to reveal a lack of understanding. An alternative lens with better explanation of events of monetary history may be a better way to go.

Pat said...

Sigh. Once again we are reminded to just ignore the trolls, seeking the least little thing to try and say , AHA. This always seems to happen after they are initially crushed on some main thesis of theirs, they scuttle away for the most part but then just show up with some monkey scat to throw they think relevant but once again show total lack of understanding.

Indenture said...

http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2013/04/open-window-forum.html

KnallGold said...

"Bank of Canada makes shock rate cut on oil concerns"

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN0KU1U320150121

"..Analysts had expected the bank to cut its growth and inflation forecasts but had predicted the bank's next move would be a rate hike in the fourth quarter .."

M said...

You can see an almost perfect correlation with big central bank moves and paper gold getting hammered.

Look at the BOC interest rate cut. Gold was hammered just before.

Muad'Grumps said...

Silver has been doing quite well. It's unusual how tranquil it is against the mayhem in other markets. Maybe the BRICS are bringing it as well as gold into trade settlement.

I've finished most of the highlight posts on this blog. There's one thing that really bothers me. It's the assumption gold does well during inflation. I can't help but wince whenever I come across this like when Schiff says all this QE is going to cause hyperinflation. Sorry, Pete, but QE is preventing hyperinflation.

If all the CBs were to leave bonds alone then you'll get a hyperinflation. New money doesn't have to created for a HI. The money is already there. HI occurs when M0 grows faster than the higher aggregates.

tEON said...

@Flatulance

Maybe the BRICS are bringing it (Silver) as well as gold into trade settlement.

I've finished most of the highlight posts on this blog.

These two statements are at odds and indicate your education is still a few tacos short of a fiesta platter.

HI occurs when M0 grows faster than the higher aggregates.

Hyperinflation starts when the public is unwilling to hold the money for more than the time it is needed to trade it for something tangible to avoid further loss. It's not the simply growth of M0 but, rather, the Velocity of Money [ P = M x V ]. This alone can increase the general level of prices. Even with a falling M3! But Hyperinflation is a psychological phenomenon relating to confidence. It usually happens overnight and it is impossible to forecast.

Unknown said...

Flat Show Lace. I'd like to think there is POTENTIAL for HI with the QE that already has been done. Currently 2+Trillion (from memory) sits parked with the Fed as excess reserves.
If this is withdrawn and put through the economy, with the fractional reserve multiplier, you get the base money hitting the real economy and then huge credit growth. If you combine that with negative interest rates...... Think the USD would drop like a rock.
Greenspan late last year likened the excess reserves to "tinder" that could start an inflationary fire.

Robert said...

Stu,

I don't think we need a daily update, but I think you are right to call into question two views that are commonly held by many of FOFOA's followers (but for which I am not sure that he has taken the same position himself). First is the view that we should expect a long gradual decline in the $POG prior to the reset. Second is the view that we should expect a long gradual decline in GLD inventories.

Regarding the first point, old timers will recall a time when the majority of posters welcomed a long term gradual increase in the $POG. In fact, FOFOA would start a new open forum every time the $POG climbed another $100. The expectation at that time was that this would and should continue because the USD needs a long term gradual/managed increase in the $POG until everything blows up at the end. Yes, there was always a recognition that paper will burn in the end. But the view back then was that it would be a sudden crash, not a long slow burn. Something changed along the way when the $POG stopped climbing, which led FOFOA to speculate (yes, speculate) that perhaps some form of official support for the $POG had been withdrawn. And perhaps it has. And perhaps that explains the drops from $1900. If one believes the thesis that the USD needs a long term gradual increase, then this drop off should be bad news for the USD as we should expect the flow to become tighter as the $POG drops. But my point is that the mindset of the board changed when the $POG started to fall, and the view that many contributors have now is not the same as it was back then.

I think the second issue is related to the first. If you look at a long term chart of GLD inventories compared to GLD price, you can see that these have historically been closely correlated. I don't think it should come as any surprise to anyone that GLD inventories are rising again as the $POG rises. Again, I think it depends on when you see the market breaking as a sudden event or a gradual onset event. If you see it as a long term gradual event, then gradually increasing GLD inventories might seem to refute the thesis. But if you see the break as a sudden onset event, it doesn't really matter whether GLD inventories are at an all time high or an all time low the day before the event happens. Right?

Do you think that rising GLD inventories prove or disprove anything?

Bright aurum said...

@PeaknikMicki
You can scratch "the fractional reserve multiplier" and "huge credit growth" from the equation. Velocity does not need any of those in fact they get into reverse when the "hot phase" of breaking confidence and rising prices hit.

Bright aurum said...

@ Robert
"First is the view that we should expect a long gradual decline in the $POG prior to the reset."
- No. If that view is held it will be a resounding minority here. Things were going pretty well until the summer of 2013 when POG got where the USD wanted it to be - close to production level (some kind of backroom deal was reached which might explain the current POOil action ?)
The only entities that want a rising POG are those that are marking their reserves to market.
Why the shrimp flow continues is a mystery to me? What I can see from my shrimp perspective is very low scrap flows.
Tomorrow's ECB action will be an interesting one. Wall street gets it wrong as usual but the show has an agenda (watch all the MSM noise out there) attached. Can the ants force the hand of the gorilla other than to scratch itself?
We perceive and we ponder on.

Bright aurum said...

@ all
Maybe at last we see some deployment of the ECB`s balance sheet unrealized POG gains that are transferred directly to the revaluation accounts. Should liabilities get printed and POG falls again then they will have no other choice but to pull the plug on the IM$.

The Jackalope said...

#bright aurum You lost me at "Some kind of backroom deal was reached"

Thats when we venture into conspiracy theory nonsense.

M said...

@ Peakmikniki

"2+Trillion (from memory) sits parked with the Fed as excess reserves."

Hyperinflation doesn't have much to do with the quantity of money sitting at the Fed.

Hyperinflation is USD deflation brought to its conclusion. If the 2008 collapse was allowed to take its course just like the Asian financial crisis was allowed to take its course, there would have been hyperinflation by the summer of 2009.

Mounting defaults were leading to capital withdrawal and capital flight from stock markets and "risk assets". If there was no bailouts, the capital flight would have eventually hit the US bond market because the continued defaults would have flushed out the tax base that backs the debt. Once the capital flight hits the US bond market, it will bump up inflation as dollars start flooding the forex markets. This will bump up dollar velocity within the US and abroad. More defaults lead to more capital flight which leads to more inflation/devaluation which leads to more velocity. Eventually, the velocity causes a shortage of base money because there is way more transactions happening. This is when the Fed will have to decide if they want to step in and provide the base money that the velocity is demanding. I don't think this will be as big of an issue for the US in this case because the initial devaluation and forex flood will be so chaotic that there won't be an obvious point where the central bank can notice the shortage of base money and provide it like they did in Germany in the 20's.

So what Flat Shoe Lance is saying is correct. The current central bank balance sheet expansion is preventing hyperinflation. For now.... But it is not the same animal as central bank balance sheet expansion that is providing base money because money velocity caused a shortage of it.

Unknown said...

Would anyone here agree that it is time to play the GOR tightening trade seeing as were close to 30:1, or are we expecting FG as being imminent?

M said...

And in this pre-crash central bank balance sheet expansion(inflation), gold is just another speculative asset.

But in the post crash, money velocity induced base money shortage central bank balance sheet expansion(inflation) , gold is the go to asset par excellence.

Bright aurum said...

@ Stu Ungar
I`ll let the history prove me wrong.

Michael dV said...

I doubt anyone who has been here a few years would venture a timing prediction. Several times I have announced I could just 'feel' the change a comin'. After being wrong a few times I just kept those 'feelins' to myself. They were of course just indigestion.
As for the GLD inventory, the term 'pot watching' is a self referential, self deprecating term. We recognize it is foolish to try to predict what is happening is the halls of the big money folks but we get bored and need something to stay amused while we wait. When GLD inventory is dropping we feel empowered and can announce to ourselves that the end is near. When it rises we say 'it really isn't all that important. It is really just silly but like I said...we are bored and an idle mind is....hey look the GSR ratio just....

Anand Srivastava said...

Flat Show Lace:

HI occurs when M0 grows faster than the higher aggregates.

This is patently false. Lets see what happens ab initio.

The Quantity Theory of Money has a term called Velocity. The velocity is basically an estimate of how many times the currency changes hands.

So how does the velocity depends on inflation. Lets say 100Kgs of rice will last you a year. Lets say the inflation is 5%. So the benefit of buying the rice now is that you would pay the price of 5Kg less now. But the cost of storage and the hassle may not be worth it. So few people will want to hold the rice.

But if this inflation was say 20%, there will be a lot more persons who will want to hold the rice.

So as long as inflation is low, velocity will keep on dropping as more money is added to the mix. Ie there will be no inflation rise. Its pretty simple if you think about it.

What does cause the inflation to rise is, when something critical is no longer in the economy, and must be brought from outside.* To buy that critical thing you must sell something. If you can't sell something your currency will fall, as you try hard to buy that stuff. And since this stuff is critical for your economy, everything will rise and you will get inflation.

This inflation can reach a point where the trigger for velocity increase happens. At this point the velocity will rise rapidly to reach some high level where all the money in the economy has caused the inflation. The inflation should stop at that point. But meanwhile your govt is not staying still. It is printing more money, because it needs to pay its bills. That is what causes Hyperinflation.

You will not see Hyperinflation unless the USD starts to drop wildly in the international market. Then only then your Walmart will not be able to source all the stuff your public needs. That is only when you will have hyperinflation.

Trying to point to M0 as a trigger for inflation, means that you haven't thought through the mechanisms through which hyperinflation happens.

* Note: The critical thing may not be a single thing. It could be just that people are not producing much and just consuming, and the govt is printing money in an effort to provide everybody with free food. In this case everything becomes critical.

KnallGold said...

May David Lynch & Lykke Li sweeten the waiting...or is it the FreeGolder's Swan Song lol

Phat Repat said...

Though I expect challenges to the ECB decision, it does cause me concern as I wouldn't have expected this to be permitted. The new boss same as the old boss? What is the takeaway/impact from a FG lens perspective?

M said...

I don't get why they are starting QE now. Bond yields are fine in Europe. Spanish debt is lower then US debt. But here we are with ECB QE.

It's all just to support the US.

queckshep said...

They only promised to start the purchases from march 2015 to the end of september 2016. Draghi also said that the vote was unanimous this time...really?? Am I the only one thinking something is wrong here?

Muad'Grumps said...

M, bonds yields have been fine because the market front-ran QE. Gee, Draghi's been threatening for how long? Sometimes the power is the threat of implementation rather than implementation. Love how the initial leak was 50B per month. Markets yawned. Oh no it's going to be 58B. Yeah big deal. Today it's 60B with probably some caveats in the fine print regarding further measures.

Somebody mentioned the Quantity Theory of Money. Yeah, that's the problem. The freegold lens is steeped in it and it's leading this crowd astray with misconceptions about gold. This reminds me of the Flatlanders not being able to perceive 3d objects for what they are and this QToM stuff is likewise blinding you from the cavitating characteristics of currency/credit.

Somebody mentioned what would happen if excess reserves were lent out. He thought this would be hyperinflationary. No, it would be inflationary and if the loans are judicious and grow the economic pie then the real price of gold may actually fall in this scenario. HI is not a lot of inflation. HI is deflationary. The economy contracts in HI.

Tommy2Tone said...

FSL,

Can you expound this sentence of yours?

"The freegold lens is steeped in it and it's leading this crowd astray with misconceptions about gold. "

It's one thing to say something, it's another to explain and share so we can be corrected.
The lectern is yours.

Bright aurum said...

Is it a lapsus ?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-22/mario-draghis-qe-dreams-come-true-independent-ecb-press-conference-live-webcast

around 8th minute ... "the sizeable increase of our balance sh!t..."

C.L. said...


@Bright aurum


"Is it a lapsus ?"

Just try saying "balance sheet" with an Italian accent.

C.L. said...

We're hearing new questions.

"Can Gold Prices Climb With a Rising U.S. Dollar?"

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/gold-prices-can-they-climb-with-a-rising-u-s-dollar-trol8QEpR6aYQFQdOomXhA.html

Franco said...

Yeah, why start now with the printing?

Franco said...

Also, what a strange coincidence that only a few days ago the SNB abandons the peg to the Euro, and today the ECB announces printing. It looks like jumping out of the train before it derails, maybe?

Bright aurum said...

@ C.L.
No problemo. Balans sciit

The Jackalope said...

@franco Its not strange, its logical. It was obvious after the European court ruled Euro QE legal that Draghi would go forward. The Swiss clearly didnt want to be put more and more Euros so they quit the peg. Not strange, just purely logical and in my opinion, fairly irrelevant from a freegold lense.

Dim said...

From Dirty Float:

Calls for the ECB to intervene in the foreign exchange market and weaken the euro's exchange rate have been growing lately, but officials with the ECB have made it clear that they have no interest in doing the dirty float anymore.

It seems the dirty float is back on, doesn't it?

Nick said...

FOA:

"Truly, the ECB is not interested in "crashing" the system, rather let's "transition" the system into a more fair order. If intervention is needed, it's needed to keep the American economy from failing too fast from the coming hyperinflation of its currency. If the ECB is worried about the "exchange rate" being too far out of whack, it's a worry about its effect in generating a dollar system meltdown from deficit trade. Not a total failure of the Euro as so many report. When the time comes, and it will; the dollar will begin its fall away from its own past policy failure. Until that time, for the benefit of oil producers and many others, let's move as far down this Euro/gold trail as possible. Without a breakdown."

And FOFOA from Global Stagnation:


"The ECB's own statements make it clear, every week: Monetary policy, by definition, is stuff you do at home; Reserves—gold and foreign currency/foreign debt—and operations pertaining to reserves, are not part of monetary policy. They are exchange rate manipulations, and the ECB has made it clear that they aren't doing the dirty anymore. Monetary policy won't change. If you hate this system because of CB monetary policy, then you'll probably hate the next one as well.

What will change is that exchange rates will no longer be manipulated, therefore foreign currency, foreign debt and gold will just sit there, unchanged, on the CB balance sheets. Simple as that. The CBs will still mess with interest rates, reserve requirements, and buy debt and other stuff within their own currency zones, because that's what has at least a little effect on aggregate demand."

Curious to what degree the ECB's decision to launch QE is due to being constrained in the current $IMF system. I'm also curious if FOFOA et al find FOA's quote above still true, as well as if the recent QE programs could be defined just as "monetary policy to attempt to effect aggregate demand."

Nick said...

Dim,

The recent actions wouldn't constitute a 'Dirty Float' as the ECB didn't mention anything about buying US debt, but rather debt within their own currency zone. Granted this can still has an effect on exchange rates but by definition it's not a dirty float in terms of buying $US debt as discussed in that post.

Dim said...

Nick, thankyou, I think I understand. The ECB's actions are not on the foreign exchange market, but local.

Bright aurum said...

@Nick
Should the USD strenghtens foo much. Is it currency swaps revisited?

Bright aurum said...

Or, alternatively, can the FED buy euros without calling it a peg, but say ... active monetary operations... - a stategy to shake off speculators, and so on.

Anand Srivastava said...

FSL:

So if you don't think that QToM is valid, then there must be some other theory of money that you consider valid.

Let us also know that theory. I hope you don't believe in God doing everything, just like the Creationists.

As far as I know this is the only theory that explains anything at all.

And it makes sense. It basically says that the Inflation depends on Currency directly being used for buying and selling. The currency not in the market does not matter. This is what the volatility parameter does. You cannot observe volatility. Inflation cannot be calculated from the equation, so it is useless for traders. Its only use is understanding the market. Traders don't want understanding, they want usable predictions.

There are two phases to Printing. First phase is when the inflation is low and financial items are growing much faster in price. The second phase is the hyperinflation phase, where only basic necessities are growing much faster in price. US is still firmly in the first phase.

Nick said...

@Bright aurum

I was pondering along those same lines myself. Strengthening dollar, weakening Euro... who knows. But not very relevant in the big picture, IMO. I had to zoom out and remind myself:

FOFOA from Dirty Float:
"Wait… WHAT?! Is the dollar too strong or too weak? Does the Fed want it stronger or weaker, and what does Europe want? I'm confused!" Yes, I know it's confusing. It's not about too weak or too strong at this point. The dollar is simply overvalued, and has been since 1958 when the Bretton Woods gold flow reversed. In the 1960s, that overvaluation was reflected in the European accumulation of dollars and the one-way gold flow. Today it is reflected in the perpetual US trade deficit, which over 40 years has become structural and immutable within the status quo."

FOFOA again in Euro Gold:
"Now I want to talk about "the process of saving debt at all costs, even buying it outright for cash" because this is something they are doing in Europe as well, and, therefore, is one of the arguments the euro critics use to claim that the euro is no different—or even worse—than the dollar. Should we be surprised or shocked that they are doing this in Europe having read A/FOA all those years ago? Well, no. Unless, like many, you didn't really understand what you read.

In my 2009 post Gold is Money – Part 2, I wrote, "And it was always known, but has now been proven, that the system will be saved at ANY cost." When I wrote that I was discussing the dollar and the dollar system, aka the $IMFS, aka Wall Street. But this applies to any monetary and financial system. The system always takes political precedence over the currency. The currency will always be debased if that is needed to keep the system functioning nominally. This is nothing new and it should not be surprising, yet it's apparently very surprising to 99.9% of all financial analysts"

FOFOA said "If you thought it was hard to think like a giant, it's even harder to think like a CB." Perhaps an addendum should be added to that quote- "and it's even harder to think like a CB in the current $IMFS!"

Sam said...

Hi Nick

Nice posts.

Bjorn said...

Spot on Nick!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

Roacheforque said...

Nick is correct, this is not done "to support the US", M, but rather to support the (debt-based) system.
There is no "US", nor is there "Europe", rather there is "The System". It has no allegiance to any Nation or classe politique. It's sole allegiance is to debt.

Anand Srivastava said...

I am thinking maybe ECB is printing to let the Dollar scale the heights it must before sanity can be restored.

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