Saturday, December 22, 2012

AFTER (THOUGHTS!)



My Christmas present to you this year is AFTER (THOUGHTS!). It is what I mentioned in these three comments, and it is a complete chronological archive of all of ANOTHER's and FOA's comments that came after (hence the name) ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!). It is more complete than what I previously posted by at least 700 pages, and that's not counting the Gold Trail posts which are also intermixed with concurrent A/FOA comments that remained separated from birth until now.

In total, these five pages, which are also linked in the sidebar, contain 1,428 pages (in Word) of A/FOA comments in the same order and basic context as they were written, which is also the order that they were read by those who were following the Trail in real time between 9/20/98 and 12/16/01. To read them in this order was a challenge even when USAGOLD still had the Discussion Forum online, a chore which I never attempted, and impossible now that the regular forum is missing. Yet here it is, dropped in our lap like a present from Santa himself!

AFTER (THOUGHTS!) 9/20/98 – 8/18/99
AFTER (THOUGHTS!) 8/19/99 – 2/08/00
AFTER (THOUGHTS!) 2/09/00 – 9/03/00
AFTER (THOUGHTS!) 9/03/00 – 4/23/01
AFTER (THOUGHTS!) 4/23/01 – 12/16/01

It's not as pretty as USAGOLD or Ron M's Air-Friendly PDFs, but it's all there (possibly TWICE as many A/FOA comments as we had available yesterday), and soon it will all be searchable on Google. The links to my copy of Martijn's archive are no longer in the sidebar, but they still exist and can be accessed at the bottom of that post because A) they are already searchable on Google, and B) they may contain a few comments by ORO (and others) that are not in AFTER (THOUGHTS!).

But this is not meant to be your only Christmas present this year. There's one more surprise that I hope to slip under the tree for you before Christmas! ;D

Sincerely,


UPDATE:

I just added pdfs to the links in the sidebar. The archive is divided into two pdfs which are beautifully formatted and even have live links just as they appeared on USAGOLD. The first one covers parts 1 and 2 and is 659 pages. That's basically all of the posts between the end of Thoughts and the beginning of Gold Trail. And the second pdf is parts 3, 4 and 5, 769 pages which starts two weeks before the Gold Trail.

Also, another reader just informed me that he has a copy of ALL of the USAGOLD comments from 1998-2006. He says it's such a large mass of files that it's difficult to reorganize, but that any individual day of comments is easy enough to pull up. So I'll take a look at what he has and see if one of our database or internet experts can figure out a way to make it all at least accessible to everyone.

UPDATE #2 (12/23/12):

I now have a copy of the entire discussion forum archive that is missing from USAGOLD! It is pretty large, containing 3,145 folders each of which contains a day of comments from late 1998 through early 2007, about 8 ½ years' worth of comments. The folder names are the dates.

Here's a sample. I picked one random day in 1998 and threw it up as a sample page.

If anyone else would like to download this archive file, it will be available at this link for the next five days, at which point the link will expire. The d/l is a zip file that is 92MB which expands to something like 280MB. It looks like, since this is a free file sharing site, there are only 100 downloads available. [Correction, only 20 free downloads! Check comments for new links if the limit has been reached.] So first come first served! :D

Update #3 (12/24/12):

So far at least 46 people have downloaded the archives from the transferbigfiles website. And here are two more links with unlimited downloads:

From Google docs -Thanks Aquilus!

From Amazon s3 (d/l will start immediately) -Thanks Winters!

Or, if you know how to use a torrent, here's the torrent link:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/fofoa/archives.zip?torrent



61 comments:

78Rubies said...

Merry Christmas. ;)

Aquilus said...

Many, many thanks to the anonymous provider of these archives. And of course to you FOFOA for publishing them.

Merry Christmas

Jeff said...

Outstanding. Thanks for these.

Dante_Eu said...

Oh man, even more brainwashing material!

Merry Christmas to All!

Woland said...

So a solitary monk preserved our "Library of Alexandria" from
destruction! We owe him a great debt of thanks, as well as to
Fofoa for restoring to public view all those lost pages. Do you
think he would consent to a debrief? That would sure stuff my
stocking to the brim! Cheers.

tudsy said...

How about the original word doc so we can take a crack at beautifying things a bit?

Mircea said...

I've made on my drive a copy of the content of this site using a FREE software called HTTrack Website Copier. Anyone can do the same, if they like.

Mircea said...

Oh, and Merry Christmas to all! I'm now heading to The End of The World Afterparty!

The Dork of Cork said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltIidNNcVgo

Interesting video about dual currencies - one with a negative value.

Although I think Greenback notes serve this function other then they would be centralized by a government not in debt to the banks.

oldinvestor said...

A great year-end summery. Caution, long and many links. First part is just about him, but then it gets good.

http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/80283/2012-year-review

M said...

Gold basically UNCH for the year priced in US dollars.

Euro is rising..

Suicide watch at TF metals report and various other hard money socialist camps.

Suicide watch at various Euro shorters camps ;)

Interesting times...

costata said...

Merry Christmas to all.

jeb said...

Is the rising gold price needed by the euro zone to slow down the buying of gold so that it allows them more time to get their banking frame work in place? Just noticed the gold price took a hammering the other day and around the same time some banking reforms of some sort were passed as well. If i was in paper gold and noticed the euro framework was becoming more complete id get the hell out.

Sam said...

off topic but I can't find it in the comment archives and i'm dying to know....what happened to Blondie?

ampmfix said...

Yes, Blondie, we miss you.

costata said...

Woland,

Re: Your comment about Japan from the end of the previous thread.

I was inclined to think that Japan could experience HI but I'm less inclined to believe that today. Devaluation of the Yen may be controllable.

The article linked below also surprised me. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/stock-markets/asia-and-japan/ex-olympus-ceo-michael-woodford-on-corporate-japan-62000

h/t Dollar Collapse

I don't agree with the conclusions of the writer and the interviewee. It appears that the Japanese stoicism and focus on collaboration (as opposed to competition and conflict) is as strong as ever. They may yet rediscover their strengths and stop tailoring policy to suit the USG's interests.

FOFOA said...

Hello Tudsy,

I just added pdfs to the links in the sidebar. The archive is divided into two pdfs which are beautifully formatted and even have live links just as they appeared on USAGOLD. The first one covers parts 1 and 2 and is 659 pages. That's basically all of the posts between the end of Thoughts and the beginning of Gold Trail. And the second pdf is parts 3, 4 and 5, 769 pages which starts two weeks before the Gold Trail.

Also, another reader just informed me that he has a copy of ALL of the USAGOLD comments from 1998-2006. He says it's such a large mass of files that it's difficult to reorganize, but that any individual day of comments is easy enough to pull up. So I'll take a look at what he has and see if one of our database or internet experts can figure out a way to make it all at least accessible to everyone.

Sincerely,
FOFOA

costata said...

What a great idea.

http://www.combibar.com/?L=3793

The single 1g / 10g bars are manufactured with accurate constructed predetermined breaking points and therefore can be separated easily without any loss of material.

Ore em' said...

Well, it should be patently obvious to everyone that this is nothing short of a Festivus Miracle!

Aquilus said...

I think it's appropriate to post some A-HA! comments from FOA.

This next one compares the excess of dollars for the gold available (at that price) in the 70s and the subsequent default to today's excess of derivatives for the dollars in existence.

Of course, unlike gold where default was preferable, dollars can be created at will when the time comes to redeem any and all contract (and drive the price of the dollar to 0). But here's FOA from 1998:


Friend of Another (09/26/98; 18:31:32MDT - Msg ID:200)
Ph in LA (9/25/98; 10:09:42MST - Msg ID:175)

YOUR PARTIAL QUESTION: "Would it become impossible and/or difficult for citizens to repatriate funds/assets held outside the country? It seems hard to imagine the chilling effect "currency controls" would have saying that holding gold outside the country under such circumstances might be unwise, too."?????

Ph, The possibility of FXC (Foreign Exchange Controls) is very real. This topic has been discussed in several well written books spanning 25 years. In a way, the closing of the gold window in the early 70s was a form of FXC. Anyone outside the country could no longer get their gold because too many dollars had been printed to cover the gold in the US treasury.

Today, to many derivatives have been printed (paper gold is one of them) than can be covered by the outstanding dollars! The US Federal Reserve either prints a load of dollars to cover this contingent or the system falls apart. If the Fed prints, the Americans get inflation. If the Fed doesn't print, the world financial system, based on a dollar reserve currency, starts to implode and foreign holders of dollar assets try to exchange these for their local currency. To do this they must take the dollar home to the USA for exchange! During this exchange, if the dollar loses to much value in the exchange rate, these foreign holders just SPEND THEM in America!

Again, the US experiences price inflation, only this time it's during a global deflation in dollar assets. To stop this chain of events, this time the US Treasury closes the dollar window. It's usually a last effort to hold the banking system together. The gold window was closed by holding gold at a low price valuation and not selling any of it. The dollar window will be closed by buying dollar currency at a rate so low as to stop most major holders from exchanging. This usually brings a two tier market , dollars inside the country worth more than outside the country. For some time, all dollars outside the US were called Eurodollars! Will we see these Eurodollars exchanged for Gold ???? In some countries, the CBs already have. Thanks.

Börjesson said...

" If the Fed prints, the Americans get inflation."

This has proven incorrect, hasn't it? It rather seems that the Fed is trying to get inflation up, but failing so far.

One Bad Adder said...

Borjesson: - Go to the top of the Class Sire.

Naughty Slumdog said...

Pls watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmwwrGV_aiE
this is a glimpse of what society and economy will be like in the near future. Imagine the terabytes and trillions needed to cope with such economy and society. And imagine the tremendous confusion brought by the dynamics of mankind. How this would be reflected in the monetary system? Tremendous volume, global integration and desperate need for a stable point ?

Aquilus said...

@Naughty Slumdog

Sounds like what's needed is unrestricted (but not unlimited) credit in multiple local / regional currencies with a stable reference point as reserve that is not credit based and can price those currencies as it floats against them.

Dynamic monetary system for a dynamic world...

costata said...

Earlier today I read Doug Noland's latest newsletter.

http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/creditbubblebulletinview?art_id=10741

There's a couple of extracts below from the section of the report which has been on my mind for the past few hours. It appears that European corporates are reducing their reliance on bank funding.

This could give the ECB and governments more latitude in cleaning up the mess in the EU banking system. Enlarging the ranks of Euro denominated bond holders also adds to the support base of the ECB in seeking to fulfil its mandate.

The large amounts of fixed-rate bonds issued by US corporates positions them to be winners from US dollar hyper-inflation.

Global Credit Watch:

December 20 – Bloomberg (Hannah Benjamin): “Europe’s corporate bond market risks becoming a victim of its own success in the year ahead as reduced issuance by cash-rich treasurers offers slim pickings for investors accustomed to the double-digit returns of 2012.

Credit Agricole SA is predicting a 37% slump in corporate bond issuance, Morgan Stanley forecasts a 15 percent drop and Societe Generale SA expects a 6% decline after the busiest year since the start of Europe’s credit crisis....

December 18 - Bloomberg (Sarika Gangar): “Potential interest-rate rises pose a greater threat to investment-grade corporate bonds than credit risk and may trigger larger losses than in 2002, Fitch Ratings said in a research note today.

With $974 billion of U.S. investment-grade debt sold this year through November at historically low borrowing costs, investors are at risk of a ‘bond bubble’ and a plunge in prices, according to the ratings company......


December 17 - Bloomberg (Sarika Gangar): “Corporate bond sales from the U.S to Europe and Asia surpassed 2009’s record to reach $3.89 trillion this year as borrowing costs plunged to the lowest ever.

Global issuance is up from $3.29 trillion last year and $3.23 trillion in 2010… With central banks holding down benchmark interest rates to prop up the global economy, investors funneled an unprecedented $455.7 billion into bond funds this year, according to EPFR…

Companies from the riskiest to the most creditworthy took advantage of yields that fell to 3.33% this month to lock in lower borrowing costs…

duggo said...

@ Naughty Slumdog

"What Does It All Mean"

For me it means that when there is a simple, cheap and easily obtained way of tapping into the energy that surrounds us (Tesla style). Then there will be a complete transformation of society and thinking. T.P.T.B have tried to keep a lid on it but once it's breaks out there will be no stopping it.

It will truly be the dawning of a new age.

ChrisF said...

Michael H,

Thanks for your come-back on the previous thread re. my suggestion that there will be legitimate need to hedge MoEs versus Gold in a Freegold environment. The Nigerian widget factory example was simply made up to illustrate the point, as I am sure you realize.
The major point I have difficulty with is the concept, often expressed here, whereby after Freegold all paper trading in Gold will not be allowed somehow! The implication being that paper trading opens up manipulation that a physical only market avoids. I think this is nonsense.

This leads me to ask myself what exactly is this evil paper market that must be banned? Surely not the futures markets where, by definition, there is a Long for every Short. My conclusion (so far!) is that it must be 'paper commitments for physical' guaranteed by a Central Bank to (say) some giant oil producer to be supplied over years as new physical becomes available. Thus large physical demand is kept off the market while TPTB try to work out what to do ... by kicking this can.
However, rather than preach here, I have been waiting for a precise definition of what this paper gold actually is that will not be allowed.
I think that this general paper gold subject needs to be discussed in depth here rather than sort of glossed over. Just IMHO.

battleshipyamato said...

The volume of material is daunting but I suppose most things that are difficult are worth doing if you enjoy doing them. I very much appreciate it being made available to us "late comers".

As a resident of Japan I can tell you that after about a dozen QEs inflation has still not arrived on the shores of Nippon. HI that has to be a sick joke ... The two prime minister candidates debated the relative merits of targeting 2% versus the current 1%. 2 decades of zero growth Ho ho ho.

If energy can somehow become ubiquitous then its a game changer for sure. I have no doubt that the sun provides all the energy we could ever want, its just a question of human dynamics that is preventing a transition from occurring.

The nut cruncher is caring capacity. But that is a debate for a different thread methinks.

Finally my view about paper metals is that as long as the large majority of investors are willing to accept digits or paper in lieu of actual gold then the system continues to operate within its current parameters. Free market, manipulation, leveraged plays to shake out stopouts not withstanding. Its all fair game in the current situation.

In this aspect it is "evil" for those who stack the physical stuff. Were the 90% of paper holders to actually to ask for their gold like Kyle Bass has I think we would see a very different dynamic at work. Hypothecation, leasing and other market options quickly lose their relevance in a world of possession of the physical stuff.

I suppose on the flip side digital pricing of gold makes it still relatively affordable to build up a decent position and for that we should all be thankful.

Merry Christmas to all

Woland said...

Hi Aquilus; re:

"IF the dollar loses too much value in the exchange rate, these
foreign holders just (my insertion: TRY TO) SPEND THEM in
America".

I have wondered for a long time just what, exactly, would
be the most probable sequence of events (private and USG)
if 6 Trillion "orphan dollars" TRIED to make it "home for the
holidays". Particularly since there are trillions of US$ paper
assets owned by US citizens held in offshore accounts which
might try to join them. And of course, there's the organized
crime cash. I think that, if we are to take FOA's predicted
scenario at face value, it would be useful for all of us if one
of our brighter bulbs took a stab at portraying the most
probable avenues by which this "dead paper wealth" TRIES
to be made whole, and ALSO what USG's most likely counter-
moves will be.
Please understand that, by what I have said above, I am not
questioning FOA's assertion of what all those $$$ will want
to do, but rather what will actually happen when they try to
buy up domestic assets. There aren't 400 NEXEN's around
for which USG won't say, this "threatens national security".
Cheers.

Indenture said...

Cash Is King: Printing of $100 Bills Soars
"But alas, there is a silver lining to be found within all of this dollar debasement that at least one Wall Street veteran points to. "It proves beyond a doubt that the dollar is still the reserve currency of choice around the world," Colas concludes. "It may not [always] be from the most savory part of the economy, but it does signal that there's still a lot of faith in the dollar.""

See! The Dollar is King!

Pat said...

Of all the odd things gold related, the recent Queenie photo op touring the BoE gold vaults really has me going" Hmmmm... who set this up and why now"?

Woland said...

Hi Indenture; Faith in Kings is misplaced. Faith in Gods is not.
That is because kings eventually die, while Gods live forever.
Ask Abgal, Abzu, Andramelech, Anunaki, Ashur, Babar, Beletseri,
Damu, Erishkagal, Gilgamesh, Humbaba, Ishtar, Kishar, Lotan,
Marduk, (who could forget Marduk) Nabu, Ninsurta, Shamash,
Tammuz, Utu, or Zakar. Ergo, the dollar is "good as Ishtar" is,
from my perspective, a more apt description. Greetz.

One Bad Adder said...

Yes Indenture your correspondent is correct ...and curiously it is all they (TPTB) can do to forestall a rise in DX that will make many an eye water(IMHO)
Where it gets tricky is when $IRX is driven to Zero Yield implying Parity with Cash.
Now we all should know, Gold "OWNS!" the Zero Bound (whether it's in ..or of the Monetary System du-jour) due to it's "forever" qualities.

Buckle up Squire.

One Bad Adder said...

Here's a little snippet along the trail alluded to above: -
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/wall-street-dealers-lose-edge-175524005.html

...whereby the gist is that "direct-bidders" are increasing their participation at T-Auctions.
My take is that they (DB's - foreign Gov't's and whatnot) are becoming directly involved in Systemic protection / T-curve management.

Wheel-C.

mr pinnion said...

@Naughty Slumdog

I think it means that by year 2049, there will be a lot more levels to complete on grand theft auto.

Regards
Ozzy

tyrannyofthepresent said...

Silver responders,

Admittedly OT for this thread so please ignore if you wish. For those who have been kind enough to discuss Ag and GSR with me, my conclusion is 1:1 ozAu:kgAg. I fully expect to see and tolerate 3:1 weightings in both directions. Final comments welcome and will not be interpreted ad advice. This represents a significant shift to Au so consider me another person marginally influenced. Best wishes to all, will still lurk with interest. And thank you.

One Bad Adder said...

TotP: -
When we seek to "evaluate" Gold-v-Silver in $ read "currency") terms, we are discounting the fundamental fact of their structure(all 3 of them)
I too have a great deal of Faith in Silver as opposed to currencies however I also have a (somewhat less) faith in Currencies.
Gold OTOH, due to it's unique properties, requires (in strong-hands) NO Faith whatsoever.
When looked at in these terms ALL prognostications relative to Gold-v-Silver-v-Currencies are moot my friend.

costata said...

Woland,

Please understand that, by what I have said above, I am not questioning FOA's assertion of what all those $$$ will want to do, but rather what will actually happen when they try to buy up domestic assets.

The RE market will rise. Doh, already happened! About 30 per cent cash in some markets. Meanwhile dollar shortages reported in China.


Indenture,

Re: $100 bills

According to IMF research from a few years back 85 per cent of the 100 dollar notes issued circulate outside the USA. I'm wondering if our American readers are seeing more C-notes around than they are used to seeing. If that happens I think it will be an important indicator.

costata said...

A must read IMVHO. Not news to many folks here but it shows that the bad news is going mainstream.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/9763112/Chilling-economic-report-strikes-fear-into-CEOs.html

The "CEO" - always the last to know.

Indenture said...

Zakar - The Babylonian god of dreams. Dreams were considered messages from the gods. Zakar's responsibility was to send these messages to the appropriate human recipients. He was known to the Sumerians as Zaqar.

Lotan or Lawtan is the seven-headed sea serpent or dragon of Ugaritic myths. He is either a pet of the god Yamm or an aspect of Yamm himself; the cosmic ocean of myth is often known as a great stream. In the Hebrew analogue Lotan is who was also known as Yam (sea) the Leviathan. He represents the mass destruction of floods, oceans, and winter. He lives in a palace in the sea. He fights with Baal Hadad, who scatters him.

Abzu (apsû) is depicted as a deity only in the Babylonian creation epic, the Enûma Elish, taken from the library of Assurbanipal (c 630 BCE) but which is about 500 years older. In this story, he was a primal being made of fresh water and a lover to another primal deity, Tiamat, who was a creature of salt water. The Enuma Elish begins: When above the heavens did not yet exist nor the earth below, Apsu the freshwater ocean was there, the first, the begetter, and Tiamat, the saltwater sea, she who bore them all; they were still mixing their waters, and no pasture land had yet been formed, nor even a reed marsh...

Tammuz was the name of a Sumerian god of food and vegetation.

Abgal (cognate with the sumerian ab.gal, related to the akkadian apkallu, "ferryman") is a pre-Islamic north Arabian god, known from the Palmyrian desert regions as a god of Bedouins and camel drivers.

Belet-Seri (also spelled Beletseri, Belit-Sheri, Belit-Tseri) in Babylonian and Akkadian mythology is an underworld goddess. The recorder of the dead entering the underworld, she is known as the "Scribe of the Earth". It is Belet-seri who keeps the records of human activities so she can advise the queen of the dead, Erishkigal, on their final judgement. Married to Amurru, the God of Nomads, she's known as 'Queen of the Desert'.

Damu is a Sumerian god of vegetation and rebirth. He is the son of Enki and Nininsinna, or Bau and Ninurta. He kept the sap flowing and helped to regulate the death-rebirth cycle of nature.

and Marduk

Even a god will diminish if it is not remembered. I'm glad we could help these few. Woland: Question. Do you keep a running list of ancient deities in your head just in case a moment like this presents itself because I am impressed. Then again you might use it at cocktail parties to swoon the ladies!
(and I was joking about the dollar being king, I forgot the sarcasm brackets)

I remember praying to Silenus, Dionysus, Ninkasi, Osiris, Aegir, Tezcatzontecatl, Mbaba Mwana Waresa, Yasigi, Radegast, and Ragutiene.

dieuwer said...

@costata,

it is always darkest before dawn.
Also, a depression is always ended by collapsing the oversupply of labor compared to capital goods by means of war.

Sam said...

Two things.

Number 1: somebody stumped me and I’m looking for a little guidance. Did John Maynard Keynes actually advocate for a currency that had no tie to the nation state during the Bretton woods negotiations? If so I wonder if he wanted freegold to accompany this ideal reserve currency. Wikipedia says he wanted something called the “bancor’s” value expressed by weight in gold… FOA once insinuated good money drives bad money into circulation (a kind of reverse of gresham’s law.) Was Keynes looking to create good money with the Bancor? Are freegolders advocating something Keynes wanted nearly a century ago but was overruled by the United States?

Number 2: I’m bumping the “what happened to Blondie question.” FOFOA mentioned his “last post”, someone while getting debriefed said he was going to miss him, his links are gone from the sidebar. This mystery is too much for me to take!!!

jeb said...

Sam - I think Blondie deleted his page because he wasn't happy how his thoughts had been presented over time. And he stopped posting because he was internalizing a really complicated situation in his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIYvD9DI1ZA

Michael H said...

ChrisF,

This leads me to ask myself what exactly is this evil paper market that must be banned?

First, I do not think paper gold markets will necessarily be 'banned', so much as 'become meaningless as gold's function changes'. More on this below.

Second, victor has a good piece describing where a 'synthetic supply of gold' comes from. Cliff notes: it is unallocated, fractionally-reserved, gold-oz-denominated accounts at bullion banks.

Back to the paper markets: the freegold transition is about the changing of gold in the world monetary system. As such, it will be in both gold-buyers' and gold-sellers' interest to transact in only unambiguously-owned physical gold. The sellers because that is the way to assure the highest price, and the buyers because that is the way to assure they are receiving their final payment and not just a credit denominating payment at some unspecified future time.

So both the buyers and sellers will move away from this 'synthetic supply of gold' which is unallocated fractionally-reserved gold accounts.

As far as futures markets are concerned, the water is a little murkier. As you say, in the futures there is a long for every short, and as victor points out the futures market does not create a synthetic supply.

But I still suspect that the gold futures market will change drastically as a result of gold's changing function. Reason being that futures are useful for profiting from the price changes of gold, but that is not the same as benefiting from gold's settlement function.

The only entities that I see having a legitimate reason to hedge their gold exposure are those that handle gold as part of their business, either as work-in-progress or as inventory. I think a good way to hedge that exposure in freegold would be to sell it on a pooled unallocated basis like the Perth Mint does. This would only work for large players, but maybe smaller players can join together to form a similar system on aggregate.

... it must be 'paper commitments for physical' guaranteed by a Central Bank to (say) some giant oil producer to be supplied over years as new physical becomes available. Thus large physical demand is kept off the market while TPTB try to work out what to do ... by kicking this can.

This is what happened from about 1980 to 1999. After 1999 the CBs are much less ready to guarantee these paper commitments, if they are doing so at all.

FOFOA said...

Well this is exciting! Thanks to RLP I now have a copy of the entire discussion forum archive that is missing from USAGOLD! It is pretty large, containing 3,145 folders each of which contains a day of comments from late 1998 through early 2007, about 8 ½ years' worth of comments. The folder names are the dates.

Here's a sample. I picked one random day in 1998 and threw it up as a sample page.

If anyone else would like to download this archive file, it will be available at this link for the next five days, at which point the link will expire. The d/l is a zip file that is 92MB which expands to something like 280MB. It looks like, since this is a free file sharing site, there are only 100 downloads available. So first come first served! :D

Merry Christmas!
FOFOA

FOFOA said...

Oops, it looks like there were only 20 free downloads available (FAQ said 100), and the limit has already been reached. Seems there is some demand for these archives. Perhaps someone who downloaded it will be so kind as to upload it again (for free at the same site) and post the new link in a comment, then we can keep this Santa train rolling.

costata said...

Sam,

Here's a link to a good analysis of Keynes bancor proposal.

http://www.econ.jku.at/members%5CLandesmann%5Cfiles%5CWS08%5C239339%5CDiplomarbeit_Klaffenboeck_zentrale_kapitel.pdf

It contains other material that you may not be interested in but the first few pages should be enough to settle the fact that Keynes proposal wasn't exactly the same as the Euro Freegold-RPG architecture.

Did John Maynard Keynes actually advocate for a currency that had no tie to the nation state during the Bretton woods negotiations?

Yes, in the sense that no individual country would issue the international reserve currency.

Wikipedia says he wanted something called the “bancor’s” value expressed by weight in gold…

(Page 38 of linked document - my emphasis)
6.2.1 Principals of the Bancor Plan

The following principals are from the latest draft of the original "Proposals for an International Clearing Union" in August 1942. Some details that are of organisational nature are left aside since they are not really important and probably do not fit into the 21st century.30 (see Keynes, 1980, pp.168 - 195):

1. The founding countries will agree on a value of their currency in terms of Bancor and in terms of gold. Other joining countries will have to agree on their exchange rate with the Governing Board of the ICU. These rates can vary only slightly without the permission of the Board.

Huge changes are possible but only with approval of the Board. This should be easier during the first years because unforeseen circumstances might occur.


The bancor proposal was a hybrid.

Wendy said...

Merry Christmas everyone, tis the season of traveling for me. Myself and my youngest two are driving to Vancouver tomorrow.

I considered sitting in the back seat and drinking, but no amount of alcohol would make me comfortable as a passenger of either my son or daughter traveling over six mountain passes in 8 hours.

So I will have to suffer the constant blah, blah BLAH, in order to exercise my one control freakishness. "It's my car AND I AM THE DRIVER" ;)

Wishing you all a safe holiday :X

Beer Holiday said...

Merry christmas all

Have a safe and happy one.

Thanks for the ah ha link Aquarius, i would post a link to the pop band ahha and their awesome vid, and the literal version if I had access to a real computer.

Beer Holiday said...

Merry christmas all

Have a safe and happy one.

Thanks for the ah ha link Aquarius, i would post a link to the pop band ahha and their awesome vid, and the literal version if I had access to a real computer.

costata said...

Merry Christmas All

Stay safe Wendy.

Wendy said...

Thank you costata :X

Sam said...

costata,

thanks for the info and the link.

Merry Christmas

-Sam

Delusional Investing said...

Here is a link to a copy of the archives.zip (at the same site), for those that want to download it - while stocks last.

FOFOA said...

Thanks, Delusional Investing! I replaced the link up in the post with your new one. :D

Motley Fool said...

Merry Christmas all.

TF

Delusional Investing said...

Well, that download limit didn't last long. 20/20 gone.

Aquilus said...

Here's a permanent download link for the archives download: Original archives

Indenture said...

Merry Christmas from The Appalachian Mountains.

Winters said...

All, here is a better mirror for those 90MB archives

Torrent link:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/fofoa/archives.zip?torrent

Straight download link:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/fofoa/archives.zip

If possible, try and use the torrent link to save on my bandwidth fees. If you don't know what torrent is, just use the straight download.

If you need an unzipper, try 7zip (www.7-zip.org). Windows 7 should unzip it fine though.

Merry Christmas from the Southern Hemisphere!

Aaron said...

Happy Holidays to Everyone aboard our precious ship of ages past. The USD Safe Return to Port requirement sign has been turned off. If you have been seated in our paper section please note your emergency exits. If you are sitting in an emergency exit area and are unable to perform the emergency exit procedures, please let us know so we may reseat you accordingly. Our engine room is running a bit short on labor.

Post a Comment